My Very Bad Euclid Discoveries Experience
Posted by Mark Nelson on 25th May 2006 | Permanent Link
There are a lot of so-called Angel Investors in Euclid Discoveries - the number is well over one hundred if my email inbox is any judge. Very few of these individuals fit the profile of actual Angels in the true sense - they bought their shares more in a tupperware party environment than in the high-dollar, well researched context we expect from a true Angel. And I don’t say tupperware party to insult the investors. These people purchased shares from other investors who bought large blocks, perhaps with the express notion of making a profit by reselling. (Note: every privately held startup I’ve ever been a part of exercises strict controls over who you get to resell your shares to. ED apparently didn’t do this.) Most of them bought from friends and associates who they trusted - just like tupperware.
Anyway, this results in a very large community of investors that are in my opinion being subjected to a cruel form of mushroom management. They are desperate for information on their investment, and the company is not particularly forthcoming, saying little and saying it rarely. And the poor folks that bought the tupperware shares are probably not even technically shareholders - they have no rights at all.
After a few very polite requests, I set up a board for these people - they said they wanted a place to get the news on ED.
Unfortunately, as the registrations poured in, there was no news to speak of. In two months the only real activity was
- A press release from ED announcing revolutionary technology, but no product timelines, releases, etc.
- A puff piece in the home-town Boston Globe.
- A non-puff piece in the Associated Press
Meanwhile, there was absolutely nothing on the board from the members - they had zero to say, so the only posts were from me. I posted a few judgment-free links to various articles and a few judgment-filled cricitisms of ED for their bad practices.
A small cabal of people in the in-crowd took strong exception to this, and went so far as to issue gag orders to the other investors. No problem, they weren’t saying anything anyway. There were also a few remarks questioning my motivation in the whole thing, often centering on the notion that either I wanted to steal ED’s technology or I wanted to grab some shares. (I did offer to try to be a seller of calls at 1 cent on the current dollar, but I think the logistics would be tricky)
In any case, one of the key members of the cabal, Tiny Angel, started a new board for the investors at http://www.euclidinvestors.com/. In the first week or so there was not really much news there either, it was similar to my board without my editorial slant. But Tiny Angel has taken the board private, so I don’t know what’s being posted now, although I can just about guarantee there is at least one post a week saying “be patient, why would ED show anything when they have the goods? People would only steal it.”
In any case, that’s cool, anyone who wants can start a bulletin board, and Tiny Angel can keep things on message this way.
As a coda, I’ll make a few comments about Euclid Discoveries, both of which are just my opinion. I have never seen any of their technology, and they have no products, so my knowledge is limited.
- The claims they make in their press releases are most likely gross exaggerations. Should they wish to disprove it, we can arrange for nice, unbiased tests that in no way risk giving away their technology.
- Watching the company in operation, I was applying an 80/20 guesstimate - meaning there was an 80 percent chance or better that the investors would get back 20% or less of their investment. Watching the last two months, I think that is optimistic, we’re moving into 90/10 territory.
- The most ominous thing about all this is the fact that ED doesn’t talk to anyone - investors, press, public, or even potential purchasers.
- Their notion that they will make a better mousetrap and then sell it to the highest bidder is not just laughable, but may turn out to be a critical error in judgment based on the Supreme Court’s latest actions.
- ED treats their investors like shit, which is particularly sad since there are a few “my life savings” folks in the pool.
Who knows, I could be proven wrong. But I’ve seen a lot of ducks over the years, and this one is quacking, laying eggs, and flying south for the winter.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:39 am
Mark,
While I respect your right to free speech and your own opinion, your “parting” shots in my mind come from an outsider who doesn’t have a clue as to what Euclid has or doesn’t have, a guy who doesn’t understand the difference between angel and institutional investors, and a guy who tried to parlay his distant relationship with current ED investors(via a blog) into his own gain with respect to trying to bring the company you currently work for together with ED. When that didn’t work out, you turned into quite the SourPuss!
Your tupperware comments couldn’t be further from the truth and is laughable at best. NOBODY got into this thing by re-buying units from current unit holders. You’re right when you say information to investors has been suspect at best in the ‘public” arena. If the people who are bitching are indeed bonefide investors and not part of an LLC, current information and status is and has been readily available. The founders have been as up front as possible with everything since the start, making no promises or “to market” dates. If that happened, that’s a shame and that person should’ve spoke to someone else who is more realistic as it relates to setting expectations. Where in the investment documents did it state that the company was required to give daily updates as to the status? I didn’t see it and don’t have that expectation and nobody else should either. This is where the difference between angels and institutional comes in. Moore’s Lore back in Sept 05, did an article on the fact that a small company has been able to keep the investors at bay because we are angels and not institutions. This model is an exception and not the rule. Software development of this nature is almost always hit and miss, as you should be well aware of. I personnally am glad there are no institutional investors as they would probably own a big percentage of the company by now relative to the time it has taken thus far. This scenario happens all the time! Small start ups get cash, miss deadlines, and the investor takes more and more of the company until when the company finally does have something, the founders have virtually nothing left.
What makes you think ED has to do all their work in the public eye? Are they any different than others that make claims of a new product, Microsoft? If CISCO developed a product that they didn’t necessarily want to bring to market and wanted to sell to someone else, would there be a bunch of public “hoopla”? I doubt it! What makes you think that you know what ED is doing currently, who they’re speaking with, etc? It will be sold to a private/public company and at this point those are the only folks that deserve a little looksy. Not you or the general public!
ED has ALWAYS kept me informed from the start! If other angels sunk their life savings into a “crap shoot”, yes a LONG SHOT, than that’s their problem and probably not very wise. ED owes me nothing! I went into this HOPING they would do something, NOT EXPECTING anything. That’s the nature of investing don’t you think!
I’m waiting patiently and so should you! It’ll all be over sooner than later, successful or not! Hopefully, the angels, founders, developers, and others associated with this will have the last laugh. Who knows! Calm down! You have no vested interest!
May 26th, 2006 at 10:52 am
So EDAngel, right now it is my understanding that the majority of the stockholders purchased interests in LLCs that were set up by initial investors.
Are you saying that this is not true? That there are no LLCs? That all shares in Euclid were sold directly to Angel investors and that no resale of interest in those shares ever took place?
If that is what you were saying, than at least a few dozen people who claim to have money in this game told me bald-faced lies.
>ED owes me nothing!
Interesting perspective. I bet more companies wish they had investors like you. You give them money, they owe you nothing. Makes one of you look shrewd, your guess as to who.
>a guy who doesn’t understand the difference between angel and institutional investors
Actually, I do, but I think what ED wants is not Angels, it is sheep. One of the key things any Angel does is due diligence - I see none of that here. Just as an example, any Angel investor spends an enormous amount of time working on determining an exact evaluation of their ownership. Tell me about how you guys did that.
Wait, don’t tell me. It went like this: “You’re all going to be rich!”
You might want to read something like this paper by people who actually know something about Angel investing - it’s nothing like what you are practicing. Read it. ED’s Angel plan seems to have had its greatest success in convincing people that they were angels and how angels were supposed to behave. Well done on their part!
>and a guy who tried to parlay his distant relationship with current ED investors(via a blog) into his
>own gain with respect to trying to bring the company you currently work for together with ED.
>When that didn’t work out, you turned into quite the SourPuss!
No.
I gave ED the opportunity to talk to a company with tens of billions of cash on hand and a long-time history of acquisitions. ED declined to demo or to talk. Considering ED’s professed business plan is to sell their IP to the highest bidder, dude, this speaks volumes. At that point I didn’t become a sourpuss, I just realized that they have nothing to sell. My sourpuss status is unchanged from 5 years ago when I first started hearing from people who where worried they had been scammed. Those people are still worried.
>It’ll all be over sooner than later, successful or not!
I’m skeptical about that. The way a deal like this normally ends is when they run out of money and fail to deliver a product. But Euclid continues selling shares to investors using the same mushroom model. I’m thinking they’ve developed a business model that can keep them going a long time.
The one thing I wish I knew more about was at what point the SEC decides a company has gone public by virtue of broad ownership. That would be an interesting angle of investigation for ED.
Finally, I understand your anger. As I repeatedly question whether the emperor is clad, you can’t help but feel I’m questioning your intelligence as an investor. It’s not much of a leap to understand that I’m saying you made a bad choice. That would make me mad too, and I might continue to fight back and defend myself in the face of overwhelming evidence that I was wrong. So I don’t take it personally. Keep taking your shots.
May 26th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
While I have limited academic research experience in compression, I do try to keep up with various compression technologies, as ultimately, data compression is interesting from a computer science theory, mathematics, and even a statistical point of view (at least in regards to lossy compression).
However, I tend to agree with Mark in that the lack of a demonstration, of any kind, suggests a great big bottle of snake oil.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Mark,
Thanx for your reply! Your bullshit and misunderstanding of the specifics continues and in my opinion will until this is finally decided, a great success? or a miserable failure and bad investment. This is like arguing politics or religion. So, stay true to your position(both of us), and let’s just let this thing play out. At this point, neither one of will have any affect on the final outcome. I’m going to cheer and your going to boo until the end. I’m actually looking forward to “the end”, and let’s wait until then to make further comments. At that point, we can initiate a new thread of posts that will either make you or me eat crow. I’m up for either! Have a great weekend!
May 27th, 2006 at 5:18 am
Mark and EDangle….It seems fair enough for anyone to make personal decisions regarding how they choose to spend their own money. We all make daily decisions concerning the distribution of our financial resources, and often these decisions are not conforming to those of the public in general, nor even amoung friends and family. Apparently several hundred individuals have made the decision to invest in the research of Euclid Discoveries. What I have not seen in the blog/board comments is much about “due diligence” vs “blind faith”. Most comments seem to support the later. I understand the funding activities began some ten years ago and continues, at least, until recently. I understand the company is privately held, therefore financials are not available to the public, but hopefully are available to the individual investors. I would think annual audited financial statements would confirm if the cash flows from investors are prudently spent in accordance with the objective of the investment, and not on the lifestyle of Mr. Wingard and Mr. Werner. If the financial statements confirm this to be true, critical opinion should stop. If the financial statements do not confirm (or have not been made available to prove) the cash flows supporting the proposed investment activities, one might wonder if the current objective might simply to be to maintain the lifestyle of the corporate officers.
May 27th, 2006 at 11:23 am
one might wonder if the current objective might simply to be to maintain the lifestyle of the corporate officers.
Yeah, FinanceGuy, I wonder the same thing. However, wonder too much, wonder out loud, and you might find yourself on the receiving end of some sort of civil court document, so I try to not go too deep there. They have had a nice ride so far, and of course, being private, we dont’ know what their comp package looks like.
I’m not a lawyer of course, but I did find this tidbit in reference to Google, who was more or less forced to start acting like a public company:
Now, I have personally heard from over 125 people who say they have shares of ED - although many of those people are actually probably indirect shareholders via LLC ownership. Could the real number be up to 500? If so, ED would be breaking the law if it didn’t start filing quarterly reports - but if I were in their shoes I would take the position that the tupperware owners are not shareholders, even though they think they are.
Unlike ED, I will go public with one prediction: In the year 2006, Euclid Discoveries will generate sales revenue of less than $5M, will generate patent royalty revenue of $0, will not go public, will not buy back shares from anyone outside the company, and will not sell rights to any patents or other IP. They will continue to urge their investors to be patient, and will state that they are very near some big deals.
Should I hit a home run on these predictions, I am going to roundly scoff at the ED apologists, and then we’ll work on predictions for 2007.
If I don’t hit a home run, we’ll have to evaluate crow factor. The ultimate crow factor would be a return to individual investors of say, 250% or better. (Some of them have been in for six or seven years, so 150% is like a balanced index fund - break even.)
May 27th, 2006 at 11:40 am
ED Angel, you called bullshit on me, but you didn’t answer some very specific questions that I raised in the first part of comment 2. Thus, I assume that you don’t have a good answer, and in fact your statement was false. That in fact there is a vast sea of people who have (or believe they have) ownership in ED via LLC tupperware parties.
So don’t pretend it’s just a case of us disagreeing over whether the company turns out well. The business practices I mentioned stink, anyone with any knowledge of investment would agree that they stink, and you are unwilling to answer.
You also didn’t answer any of the questions about the bogosity of angel investing in ED. And you know why? Because you guys aren’t angel investors. Angel investors by definition go through exactly the same processes of scrutiny that VCs do - they are in fact not much different than VCs. The big difference is that they fill a need for smaller investments. VCs don’t want to invest $100,000 for a potential $1,000,000 payoff - that’s not where they live. This is exactly where an angel investor lives. Your uncle can afford to invest $100,000, and a million dollar payoff would be sweet. Kleiner Perkins would have to hire an intern to manage that out of petty cash, and thus just don’t care.
You seem to think that Angel means deaf, dumb, and blind. In fact the ED community brags about it, talking about how institutional investors insist on a company hitting its marks, and when it doesn’t, squeezing them for greater ownership, etc.
Hey, you know what? That’s business! When a company doesn’t hit its marks, it means your valuation has gone done. The company OWES you something at that point, and it is completely normal practice to reevaluate. If you guys aren’t totally on top of this stuff, I will say again, the only thing you have in common with angels is your white outfit, because you are a flock of sheep.
In fact, I saw a public mention that ED sold some more stock just a while back to finance their payments to investment bankers. Tell me, did they dilute your shares? Do you know how many shares they are holding out? Did the board just vote to create more shares? Did the shareholders approve a new issue? Bet you don’t have clue. In fact, I bet the angel investors don’t even have voting rights.
Baa, Baa.
May 31st, 2006 at 8:18 am
Some food for thought, although perhaps not good food, or good thoughts, or even food. And some more.
Although these two articles are posted as comments to my ED article, they are truly just good things to keep in mind when trying to stay alive in this business.
June 2nd, 2006 at 10:55 am
Mark,
It may work out, it may not, but much of what you say regarding shareholder updates simply is not true. We do get regular updates. We know exactly how may shares are outstanding. We get lists of shareholders. There was a plan from the beginning on how the shares would be sold and it has been followed to a T. You mentioned that Euclid recently sold a few shares for the investment banker. Well, that sounds like great news. Typically, the investment banker is not going to waste their time unless there is something to sell. Maybe many of us are sheep, but we took a chance on a opportunity that we don’t often get access to.
Why would you think that Euclid would entertain your offer to refer them the Microsoft (as you know, there are not many companies with tens of billions of dollars)? I did some research on you I can’t figure out why you claim you are connected.
June 4th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
>Why would you think that Euclid would entertain your offer to refer them the Microsoft
>(as you know, there are not many companies with tens of billions of dollars)?
Well, Joey, I never said that, and you are in fact wrong, I did not offer to refer them to Microsoft.
But had I done so, let’s consider the question, why would they not entertaing the offer, or one similar to it?
The answers are simple and unarguable.
1) Because they said their goal is to sell their IP, and the implication has been that they expect the billions. Thus, a referal to one of the very few customers in the world would be accepted by any sane company.
2) Because it would be incredibly stupid not to.
and of course:
3) Because they have nothing to show and nothing to sell.
Take your pick, any of the three work for me.
>I did some research on you I can’t figure out why you claim you are connected.
I made no such claim, perhaps you need to reread the posts, or have someone check your work.
>Typically, the investment banker is not going to waste their time unless there is something to sell.
Who told you that? That’s just as foolish as saying a lawyer who gets paid by the hour won’t take a case because he doesn’t think he can win it.
June 16th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
I was just browsing and stumbled over this blog and the Euclid issue. While I know from experience that people who desperately want to believe in something cannot be brought to their senses, my scientific mind cannot let this pass by. So I will just say this once and you will not hear from me again:
I’m a master of science and I’m fortuned to have a very good mind. I know quite a lot about data compression and I really have had much fun with the ludicrous claims of the likes of Jan Sloot and now Euclid. So read this and be wise:
What Euclid claims is fully and totally BULLSHIT. It cannot be done. No way, never.
That’s it. I will not waist my time on explaining why not because it would be a mission impossible.
Okay, just one little hint: A movie of 90 minutes would already need at least 50 MB for the sound alone (in bad stereo quality).
If you still don’t get it with this hint: Forget it, you’re just too stupid. If somebody wants to believe in this crap anyway and even throw away money on it: OK go ahead but don’t say you weren’t warned by people who knew what they were talking about.
Anyway, who cares. Even if it was possible (which isn’t, I know for 100% sure), by the time Euclid would have finished their product, everybody has much faster internet connections and each portable player has way more memory than now. Next generation optical storage can hold many movies anyway. Who will be interested then? It would be a niche market.
June 16th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Sorry, Whiz, if you’re such a genius, why didn’t you learn to spell and not “waist” (the correct spelling for this usage would be waste, by the way) your expertise commenting on a technology about which you know absolutely NOTHING!
June 17th, 2006 at 5:35 am
Interesting battle of words. Some from a self-described Master of Science with questionable writing skills, and a rebuttal from a self-described liason with Euclid Discoveries who responds with phrases as “Whiz is a Dick” and “Screw U”. Is it just me, or is the weather a little chilly at home office?
http://www.talkingtree.com/gallery/USA/Massachusetts/Concord/December2005/index18.cfm
June 17th, 2006 at 5:46 am
No Euclid Discoveries sign. Is suite 212 is upstairs?
http://www.artemisia.no/arc/3/omraade/usa/concord/30.monument.sq.ii.html
June 17th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
Hey, is that really their address? Kind of looks like a mail drop to me.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:26 am
I have no idea. I just “google’d” the Euclid Discoveries address and these pictures came up in the results. Maybe someone else knows?
June 18th, 2006 at 11:14 am
It’s an office building, you idiots! There are 3 stories — Euclid’s office’s are on the second floor. What else are you going to do to try to discredit this company? You know, if you keep this up you could actually find yourself in a libel or slander lawsuit!!!!!
June 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
Woodford Reserve…(Isn’t this name trademarked?)…thanks for confirming the home office address of the company. Perhaps some have not had the opportunity to drive to Concord to personally visit the premises, and can now see what it looks like. I don’t know why you believe posting the picture discredits the company? The building is very stately, obviously historical, and apparently currently being used for some commercial purpose. So home office occupies space on the second floor, well good, if I had an office this would certainly be a nice place to conduct business. I also apologize for being an “idiot” and offending you.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:17 pm
You’re right….Woodford Reserve is trademarked — I ought to know — it’ my distillery!!!!!!! So………no problem with the name. I think you and Mark are a little too quick to jump to conclusions that Euclid is not on the up and up. I had my attorneys looking at their offering from the very beginning and not only are they on the up and up, they actually have what they say they have. And, trust me on this one, I have this on good authority from third party analysts who’ve been able to see and confirm that they have what they say they have. So, before you people take your next shot at Euclid, you might stop and think that perhaps they do have a legitimate claim to the intellectual property they say they have and also have the technology they say they have. Personally, I plan to laugh all the way to the bank!!!!
June 18th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
Woodford Reserve…..my favorite brand of spirits. Have a bottle in my cabinet, and several collector’s bottles on display. I also much enjoy the tour and the lunches. You are not correct in associating my comments with those of Mark’s. I am very much “pro” Euclid and sincerely hope you guys are right. I anticipate sharing the eventual excitement of your success, but can not financially, because I am not an investor. I was late to the party, but am looking forward to my investor friends teasing me with their “I told you so” comments. I assure you I have no personal opinion regarding the company, nor the investment, and have no right since I don’t have a dog in the fight. I only dabble in this blog because of curiosity. So… I toast those with the nerve to take a chance, and may your risk be soon rewarded. And if sucess is not to be, it is your money and not anyone else’s business how you choose to invest it.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:01 pm
Thank you sir…Ours is a small batch bourbon and we’re mighty proud of it. I hope you have the Kentucky Derby collector’s bottles as well as our Breeder’s Cup collection. We also have a VIP and a Master’s collection. Helps keep my kids in shoes!
June 19th, 2006 at 9:07 am
>It’s an office building, you idiots! There are 3 stories — Euclid’s office’s are on the second floor.
Yeah, it just looks kind of small - if Euclid is on the second floor of this building:
http://www.artemisia.no/arc/3/omraade/usa/concord/30.monument.sq.ii.html
it seems like their operation is by definition a little smaller than I expected. They must have all their research flung around the country instead of onsite and the building is strictly for business.
I don’t think I have ever defamed Euclid in any actionable sense (which would probably have to be libel, BTW). I try to clarify my statements as 1) uneducated opinion, 2) educated opinion, 3) observation of facts or 4) sheer speculation. In our country, all of these are usually okay.
And I don’t want to cause damage to Euclid. I encourage anybody who is going to do business with Euclid to charge into it full speed. If they have what they say the have, you have the opportunity to latch on to a great product, so by all means check it out!
Finally, I don’t think I really need to do anything to discredit a company that has been in “imminent release of the biggest thing ever” mode for almost five years. They really need no help.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:04 am
Thank you Mark for the thought provoking commentary. I find this very interesting and at least your comments are something to think about. Not merely blind leading the blind.
June 23rd, 2006 at 5:46 am
Mark, it looks like Tiny Angel has opted for a private email system to promote his position as liason for Euclid. Investors have again been asked to refrain from posting to your message board, and critical comments by “Poodger72″ on the EuclidInvestors message board have been attributed to you. I guess we are in a quiet time until either the investors again become disgruntled, or have begun taking their checks to the bank and want you to know about it.
June 23rd, 2006 at 8:23 am
The message board I created for Euclid investors is long gone, so nobody can post to it anyway.
But I can guarantee that I am not Poodger72 - Tiny Angel set up his board for a reason and I’m not going to rain on his parade.
He should have a pretty good idea who Poodger72 is, the board normally has a verification system for adding new members, and of course he can kick the person out without any trouble.
I’m not particularly happy about having somebody else’s messages blamed on me - sounds like somebody wants a straw man to kick around in the absence of anything interesting to talk about.
I might have to register with the board just so I can repeatedly deny that I am Poodger72!
June 23rd, 2006 at 2:34 pm
Mark for the record: Below are the two posts that relate to the Poodger, I fail to see how post #2 with a veiled reference be construed as blamed on you. Suspecting is not the same thing as convicting. It was meant more as tongue in cheek but if it offended you I apologize. Seems a little too sensitive for someone who has always been quick to challenge what ED has said.
1. OK Poodger, I am in charge of the E-mail group and all members of the group have to be confirmed as to who they are and if they are truly an investor. You may be a member of the E-mail group but have not revealed your Poodger screen name. So unfortunately unless you sent me an E-mail distinguishing yourself I am afraid I have to suspect you are not an investor and I am going to start to delete your posts as soon as they appear. If you truly are an investor and for some reason you want to remain anonymous to ED so you can take a more, shall we say less than positive stance, I don’t have a problem with that. So you must send me a PM or an E-mail to Kinsmang@aol and confirm you are in fact an investor or you are out. If you are an investor and can confirm to me I will keep your identity anonymous and you can continue to post. I will still have the right to remove any posts if I feel they are contrary to the goals of ED, its investors or becomes extremely negative. Unfortunately this is not a democracy.
2. Bye the way if you are who we suspect you, I may still let you post but you will have to reveal who you are and use your real screen name (MN) However you will be subject to stricter censorship rules. (Seems pretty fair to me)
Finally finance guy ED wants private dissemination of information so it goes only to the investors, Thus we are not always playing out our little drama in public. It is harder for people to attack if there is nothing to see. Ultimately it will come down to the investors whether they are happy or not.
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:43 pm
Tiny, I agree with you. I am only here out of curiosity, not to express an opinion about the investment, and certainly not to “attack” the company nor the investors. I am not an investment analyst and know absolutely nothing about video compression. I simply thought that investors were the original source of blog discussions, and that they were seaching for dialog. Apparently you are speaking for them, in that they prefer to keep their comments “in house”, which is fine. I only speculated that comment outside your communication vehicle would appear in public if at sometime in the future the investors once again were looking for dialog outside your emails or corporate communications, or that they might simply wish to brag about their financial success. Oh…I suspect “poodger72″ actually is NOT Mark Nelson, but a disgruntled investor. I tend to believe you are the one in the “attack” mode at anyone not sharing your position, as evident by anyone chosing to express any concern to the current status of their investment.
June 24th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
Dude, tongue in cheek or not (absent smiley face) you said:
>I may still let you post but you will have to reveal who you are and use your real screen name (MN)
Sorry, the only MN around here is me, and you’ll find that people generally take exception to misattribution. Don’t do it.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
I thank each of you for the 15 seconds of fame provided by your commentary of my postings!
September 18th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Euclid DiscoveriesPosts More Claims…
Euclid Discoveries continues with their modus operandi, talking big and showing nothing. Now it’s a 5X improvement in compression over standard MPEG-4, at least in a press-release-ware.
……
April 18th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
One of my family members has purchased a large amount of stock in Euclid. He is the businessman of the family. Im the technologist of the family, and it’s like trying to argue religion with my brother to explain to him how the Euclid claims are outrageous and unlikely in the extreme. I’ve had friends at the really big iron technology companies read the press releases and hear the claims, and everyone thinks vaporware. The most cynical part of me takes one look at the tacky website and thinks this is a large fraud, but, much like believing in god, the easter bunny, and santa claus, i know i want to believe because it would be great if it were true for my brother.
I really do hope that the investors get their return. Fingers crossed for these people, and well wishes for the “engineers” of Euclid.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:27 am
I couldn’t agree more with you. What they claim sounds so lucrative and it could have been great if only it was more probable to accomplish that.
Anyway, best of luck to everyone involved. Do keep us posted on any updates.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
The rumor on ED is that they have signed a very nice bank with personnel that can make this sale based on the technology they have. Why would a investment bank put time and effort into something like ED if there is not light at the end of the rainbow. Can ED actually have the technology and be in the silent sale process. In today’s world were information is available at every corner can this be possible
April 26th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
It’s funny Taylor, that was the rumor in early 2006. The investors were getting antsy back then, and were assured that the whole thing would be wrapped up with a bow in just a few months. Euclid plays their investors very well though. The primary method of selling shares in the company made sure that most of the investors have no rights at all, so they get to sit and fret about their retirement money and life savings, but they don’t get to take management to task for lack of action.
>Why would a investment bank put time and effort into something
>like ED if there is not light at the end of the rainbow.
One good guess would be that the bank gets paid for their time regardless of what happens.
Hope you don’t have any money invested.
May 8th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Mark- I personally know 6 Euclid investors, & they all couldn’t be happier with how things are playing out with their investment…one of the top investment banks in the world, that happens to specialize in technology co’s, is representing Euclid, & things are progressing quickly…it’s obvious from reading your posts over the past year-plus that you have a personal vendetta against Euclid. Why be a hater?
May 8th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
David, I’m glad these investors are happy. Of course, they’ll be a lot happier if and when they see some of their money back in their own pockets.
I’m not a Euclid hater, just a disbeliever. Over the last four or five years they’ve consistently failed to deliver on anything they’ve ever talked about, publicly or privately. I see no indication that this is changing.
People who dump their money into a loser often remain cheerleaders right up to the end, it’s some sort of financial Stockholm Syndrome. So be it.
May 9th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
It just seems like you’re a fairly smart guy…why not spend time on more fruitful pursuits? Unless of course your disbelieving rants are meant as some sort of public service..
May 9th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
I don’t spend a lot of time on Euclid Discoveries. You can see that this was posted a year ago.
And yes, it is meant as some sort of public service. I had numerous inquiries for worried investors in Euclid, and thought it was worth responding to their concerns.
It seems odd that you would refer to this as a “rant”:
I don’t think there is really any strong emotion in it, and I don’t think I was pompous, bombastic, or windy. It’s a pretty simple statement of the facts.
What’s your connection with Euclid, “David”? You say you know some investors. Got any money in it yourself?
May 9th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Its not just Mark, you can talk to anyone who understands a little bit of technology behind compression and chances are you will hear almost the same thing. Euclid’s technology is not a secret, their patents and patent applications are published by USPTO and anyone can read them.
And Euclid is not the only company acting this way, there are a few more. Some may be well intentioned, but unfortunately thats not enough to get the investors the returns they expect.
May 10th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Mark, I think I’ve figured it out…it’s really the only plausible explanation- you must’ve approached Euclid at some point & tried to get involved….only to be rebuffed. I am not an investor, just a casual observer who happens to know some people involved. I highly doubt that worried Euclid investors would approach you to help assuage their concerns regarding their investments. I know the bank that’s taken them on, & the only way they get paid is if Euclid gets sold. That’s a fact.
May 10th, 2007 at 11:14 am
No, I can honestly say I haven’t made any attempt to get involved with Euclid Discoveries. The closest that I’ve come to any involvement was making an offer to set up a show-and-tell with my deep-pockets employer, which oddly enough, they declined.
If you think there are no worried Euclid investors, dude, you aren’t paying attention.
However, those who are staying in have incredibly high expectations - they’re thinking the technology is worth billions and billions of dollars. Which just goes to show that a lot of people aren’t very good at math. Even if ED delivered everything they have promised at one time or another, their product just can’t generate enough cash flow to justify that kind of valuation.
David, for the past four (?) years, somebody like you comes along every six months or so and says “just you wait”. And I do. Example: 12/28/05:
>Euclid is hopefully getting ready to be sold …
>didn.t know if you had heard about the latest news !
And after my skepticism:
>Always thought the tech sounded “too good to be true”
>but if it’s a scam , why are they still hanging around
>and why is CRAI Charles Rivers and associates involved
>with it AND why are top notched scientist associatd
>with it … like Michael Kirby and now K. Roy-Chowdhury
If and when any Euclid investor manages to even get their original investment back, I’ll congratulate their management team on their good job.
But I don’t expect that to happen.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
It’s very obvious that you don’t expect that to happen. I’m sorry, I thought that their “product” (ie; intellectual property) carried with it infinite possibilities in terms of cash flow…the Boston Globe article from last year quotes a notable research director at Gartner in Philadelphia, Patti Reali, who says that EuclidVision could “change dynamics in the satellite industry”. She certainly doesn’t have a horse in this race, & the article was no home-town puff-piece. It’s clear that what Euclid is claiming to have is disruptive technology, & your “deep pocketed” employer doesn’t have it.
June 5th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
What’s wrong cat got your tongue?
June 14th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Did anyone else notice that this thread was started more than a year ago and nothing has changed since then?
June 14th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
The whole experience started almost five years ago for me, and it’s been the same tune ever since. Every six months a Euclid booster comes along and starts spewing bile, inventing clever reasons for me not liking the company, and promising a shiny, happy future with billions of dollars coming their way.
Some fanboy has even managed to slip them into the Wikipedia: Euclid Discoveries and EuclidVision. The article blandly asserts, without sourcing:
The submissions are from “CoolDude00″, who oddly enough only has four Wikipedia submissions, three of which are Euclidean! And I suspect the fourth is another privately held company looking for funding…
June 15th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Why don’t you put us out of our misery and ask JC if he know’s about ED. We have been told that NP of A&C and JC have had conversations. Told there will be talk about ED at SVC. Hope you don’t need the secret decoder ring to understand my post. So if you have access or you can get access, ask the question and then both you and the rest of us will know where we stand once and for all.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I first heard of Euclid through this article from the
Boston Globe and the only other information I can find is from blog postings. You mentioned the AP article. Can you post a link to it? I can’t find it online. Thanks.
June 28th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Kevin, Euclid has a copy of the AP story on their web page:
http://www.eucliddiscoveries.com/news/wp_20060514.php
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Mark,
Please give some insight on what you see possible for ED by end of 2007. What is your expert opinion? Do you know Kevin O’Conner, is this the UTube guy? Please be ojective. Smiley “..”
………………($$)
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Smiley, any expertise I have is in the field of data compression, not business.
As far as data compression goes, Euclid Discoveries has no product, so the future for them in that area is bleak. Being objective is impossible, because there is no data.
I don’t have any insight into what goes on at ED, but by watching announcements and promises to investors, my guess would be that back in 2001 or so they thought they were on to some super-duper breakthrough in video compression based on perhaps one msiguided engineer’s poorly conceived ideas on how to improve basic video coding.
By 2004 they realized that what they had wasn’t going to work, so they jumped on this new object-based compression approach, hired some experts, and took off after that. After working on that and making progress through 2005, they had something they thought they could show to the press and maybe drum up some interest.
Unfortunately, what they had looked pretty bad, but they figured by 2007 they would have it polished and working well.
The fact that we haven’t seen any demonstrations of polished product might lead one to believe that object compression is much harder than they originally thought - maybe not commercially feasible. Maybe today’s CPUs are only up to Clutch Cargo levels of object compression.
So I think what 2008 will bring is either a) no news at all or b) an announcement of yet another direction, the third Great Leap Forward.
If they pick a third direction, it would be prudent to choose something they can succeed at. Problem is, everyone has been promised earth-shattering technology, and I don’t think they are going to be able to pluck that out of a hat.
However, I do know enough about business to know that there is an upper bound on the value of any video compression technology. Investors seem to think that the upside potential is unlimited, but in truth, the only way to make a lot of money off video compression is end-user consumer electronics. And manufacturers of these devices are only going to pay so much to license a codec. The cash flow is easy to analyze. Even the imaginary technology that ED investors believe in is not going to be worth a billion dollars.
Check out the pain threshold of the manufacturers of DVD players in China - what it took for them to start developing their own video standard. They pay a couple of bucks for MPEG patents - and that gives them heartburn. ED is not going to come in and suddenly add a $10 fee to the IP tab.
Sorry.
Ask again in 2008, I’m sure things will be the same - unless the money is all burned up by then.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:04 am
[...] Euclid Discoveries have been leading their investors on with tales of incredible video compression for years now. No doubt that somebody, someday, might make a quantum leap in video compression, but for the past [...]
November 11th, 2007 at 9:54 am
[...] in, are still hopeful that things might not be as bad as they look. Check out the comments to this post on Euclid Discoveries, more than a year has passed since this thread started and absolutely nothing has changed. Neither [...]
March 17th, 2008 at 9:45 am
It’s March of 2008 - what are you hearing?
March 17th, 2008 at 11:59 am
@Katdar:
As predicted, it is 2008 and absolutely nothing has changed - except perhaps for a decrease in the confidence of the Euclid investors - nobody logging in to announce that the company will soon be worth billions.
Euclid did issue a press release in 2007 announcing a new hire, but that’s been it.
Last year I did a little work to see if the company was running out of money. I contacted some of the people listed as part of their management team, and found out that in many cases, they had only done some very intermittent work for the company and currently had no connection. These are people listed as part of the management team:
http://www.eucliddiscoveries.com/keybios.php
These people in some cases have open consulting contracts, so they may still have a relationship with ED, but they aren’t doing any work.
A public example of that would be Anna Gilbert, PhD, (whom I have had no contact with) listed on Euclid’s “management team” web page as “Consulting Algorithmic Mathematician”. Well, she must not be doing too much work for Euclid, as they are not event mentioned on her publicly viewable CV:
http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/~annacg/
And of course, she seems to be fully occupied at Michigan.
It seems a bit disingenuous to list someone who is clearly nothing more than an occasional consultant as part of the “Management Team.”
But some of the people on the team are still full time employees, and say they are currently working for Euclid. So at least as of late last year, the doors are open. Maybe the small headcount means the cash will hold up for years and years.
I was also inadvertently bumped into the identify of Tiny Angel, one of the biggest ED boosters - he’s a chiropractor in New England. (In good standing and in practice at the time.) I’m not a detective, but I also think I possibly bumped into evidence of he and his wife liquidating an expensive asset in 2006, which would have raised a lot of cash. If he put that money into Euclid you can beat he’s drowning in flop sweat by now.
Euclid is still on the corporate listings of the state of MA, so I assume they are still in business, but they are definitely silent.
In addition to the comments on this post, you can get a sense for the boosterism of the ED supporters here:
http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/2005/09/09/angel_investors_in_america.php#32297
And here:
http://www.c10n.info/archives/289
In the meantime, I suppose the investors are still seeing stuff like this from 2006:
April 14th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I don’t know anything in business field, but very interested in data compression.
First of all - why most of you are so pessimistic about new revolutionary technology?
I understand, if we are talking about random data compression or something like that, it makes me smile.
But (as I understand) we are talking about lossy compression technique, what makes possible great achievements.
Just imagine…
Let’s use some technique to store 3D objects, for example you can follow the link for video, to understand what I mean: http://movie.diginfo.tv/2007/07/11/07-0076-d.php
OK, now we have a bunch of objects. We can make it move and do any other morph operations.
Now it looks like cartoons and not realistic - that’s right. To fix this we could use relatively small amount of data to add some realistic effects (texture, some shadows e.t.c,), but even this effects could be calculated I guess.
Anyway, the bottleneck I see is that it’s work for some kind of AI, to encode/decode all this stuff…
Sounds philosophical, but still believable (-:
And I’m pretty sure there is no any significant reasons not to believe.
Regards,
Apo
April 14th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
@Apo:
I think the primary reason for skepticism centers around the business practices of Euclid Discoveries.
Obviously there are possibilities in object-based compression - in fact, the recent clarinet story shows just what one can do with a very accurate model - but much of ED’s behavior is reminiscent of behavior seen in other companies that have turned out to be duds, or worse yet, frauds.
This doesn’t mean Euclid Discoveries is a fraud, or is doome to failure, but given their claims, I feel the bar is set rather high for them to achieve any sort of legitimacy, and they really haven’t done *anything* to accomplish that.
Let me put it this way. If you had invested $100K of your retirement money as an ED Angel five or six years ago, and had been hearing hints that untold riches were just around the corner - but still had nothing to show for it, would the tone of your post be so reasonable and accomodating?
- Mark
April 15th, 2008 at 2:30 am
I’m not investor, but as any normal person I would like to see some working results for sure.
At least this “talking head” of news speaker could be nice demo (-: (ED mention this as an example)
Such king of projects could waste a lot of money (even if it’s possible to realize somehow). I think such projects could succeed like Open-Source. With several hundreds enthusiasts without interests on money but focused on the goal.
By the way - is there any company with revolutionary promises ever show some results to the public?
Apo
June 6th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I’ve heard that this things about to pop. Anybody out there know anything?
June 9th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Hey Bardo, define POP. Moving forward, or ending?
June 9th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
My guess is that someone is trying to get their money back, and the con-artists are dropping hints to try and change their minds.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
E.C.P,
You guessed wrong! There are no con-artist at ED, and there is no investment out there that will “give your money back” LOL ???? But most significantly ED is live and well and continuing.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
@2Tech:
Like so many other people associated with ED, you appear to have a startling lack of understanding of the basics of this type of investment.
ED has actively positioned their investors as “angels”. In general, angels are going to turn their money over to the company, and will either get a big payoff some day, or kiss it goodbye. They don’t own an exchange-traded stock that they can easily sell, and they don’t have the right to ask the company to buy it back.
So yes, they are in a situation where the company will not “give your money back”. Like you said, “LOL ?????”
As for “ED is live and well and continuing”, I guess all that we know for sure is that they’ve had their investors money for quite some time (going on on seven or eight years?) and have produced nothing of value. If they keep the cash flow down to paying salaries to just a few key executives, they may be able to keep it up for another ten years without producing anything.
- Mark
June 10th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Mark,
Oh but I do know the difference, infact I have a very diversified portfolio. Perhaps it is you who is startled and lacks understanding of the basics of this type of investment. Have you ever been in an angel investment group? Do you speak from experience? “LOL” Have you ever invested big bucks in a high risk venture in your whole life? LOL …seriously… have you?
June 10th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Meanwhile anyone can go and read comp.compression and notice that from the time a new method of compression is first discussed till time that a working test program usually run from three to six MONTHS tops!
2Tech, you are a fool! I may not know that much about about investments, but I do know about development of ‘DEMO’ code … and the fact that there is NONE after all this time means they had nothing from the start and they still have nothing now.
Meanwhile computer tech moves on and one by one the reasons they claim the tech is worth so much money becomes less and less important. Worse, even in the areas where compression is still important the code that is out there works and works today.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:06 am
E.C.P.,
Wow, I have been a fool! Your insight is amazing, now I know where I went wrong. Rock on friend, your on top of your game. You won’t get any details out of me no matter how hard you try to POP my bubble.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
The saying is: “A fool and his money is soon parted”.
Well, if you are not a fool then where is your money that you invested years ago?
I notice that you had no comment on the development cycle of compression software. But unlike Euclid’s ‘claimed’ software I can get the other compression code that have been developed in the last year run on my computer today.
Likewise I see no comment from you about software/hardware developments that are eroding any claimed value of Euclid’s software.
Examples:
Videos? Why would I care about *PAYING* for Euclid’s software to compress videos to fit on a floppy? DivX has replaced MPEG for video files and increases the compression enough to fit the video on my flash-drive. A drive that is easier/faster/smaller/cheaper to use then any floppy drive - and works with anyone’s computer *WITHOUT* them needing Euclid’s software.
General Storage? Hello, your local Staples/Business Depot are selling 500 GB and bigger stand-alone drives to the general public today. People are not fighting to fit all their data into a 100 MB drive anymore.
Data Transmission? Look around, the percentage of people using high-speed internet keeps increasing
Who needs Euclid’s compression software three years from now?
The relatively few customers who want high compression in the future are *NOT* going to be paying out the billions that Euclid claims it’s software is worth.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Read my last sentence in the previous message again.
Who will want Euclid’s software? And how much are they willing to pay for it?
Multiple the two numbers will get you the possible total value of Euclid’s ‘claimed’ software.
Your problem is the first number is not growing fast and probably is heading down now-a-days.
But you real problem is the second number is falling like a rock, there just too many ‘WORKING’ alternatives for anyone to risk big bucks on a magic compressor that no-one has ever seen a working copy of.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
E.C.,
Im not going to comment on the technology. I will say your not even close with your assumptions. Maybe its 2hightech4u. Nice chatting with you, there will be no more post from me. One suggestion tonight look up at the stars and think in light years not last year.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
@2Tech:
>One suggestion tonight look up at the
>stars and think in light years not
>last year.
Pretty much confirms that you have no clue.
Let me know when you cash the check, okay?
I’ll let you know when a) the dissolution papers are filed or b) principles do the perp walk.
I don’t think a) or b) are going to happen until the money runs out though, and that will probably be a while.
- Mark
June 11th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
>The relatively few customers who
>want high compression in the future are
>*NOT* going to be paying out the billions
>that Euclid claims it’s software is worth.
This is definitely a real problem for Euclid. Even high-def video becoming a big thing, the cost of transmitting and storing bits is going down steadily.
For most storage, there is aboslutely no reason to worry about storing video in anything more compressed than H.264. Apple or Roku can ship a set-top box with enough space to hold dozens of videos for $99 or $199 - who cares if the dozens turns into 100? It’s not worth worrying about.
Likewise, even the sad US is getting high bandwidth penetration to the point where most subscribers have enough stream HD in real time. Any reason to pay extra for *more* than that? Hard to see it.
It’s kind of silly doing a what-if exercise that supposes Euclid can really do what they say, but even if they did, I’m afraid the window has closed. By the time the commoditize their product, it’s Game Over. Fail.
- Mark
June 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
The ‘What-If’ is useful to realize the worth of any new compression schemes that develop in the near future.
I have not problem with the idea of someone developing compression tech that is better than some of those in use today. But even a little knowledge of the compression field suggests any such break-thru will compress only one type of data well (ie. sound vs video vs text data).
Any new compression company coming online will find it hard to collect revenues in the millions, much less tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. Those numbers only make sense if you are thinking about licensing fees collected over decades of use.
June 29th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
i think most investors i know are sick of euclid and their claims of riches.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Investors do have options. They can file complaint with SEC, contact atty general in their state, check with bbb, make demands of mgmt or even file a class action. Thats what euclid investors should do if they feel it necessary. Euclid sounds like something the SEC would like to hear about.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:13 am
Euclid does a pretty good job of managing the expectations of their investors. I don’t think any of them are going to complain until it’s way too late.
Although at least some of them are concerned about where their money has gone, I think they know that an SEC inquiry for a company that small would be a huge burden, and they would rather have the company working on products than dealing with the lawyers.
From what I have heard from individual investors, many have not actually invested in Euclid directly - they own shares in LLCs that then purchase shares of Euclid. I’ve often wondered if this would be viewed by the SEC as an attempt to avoid various reporting requirements. But not having access to the books, I have no way of knowing if they really do have LLCs as shareholders, and if so, how many hidden investors actually exist.
- Mark
July 31st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Guess what I’ve heard again that it’s about to POP
July 31st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Wow, Bardo that is what you said a month ago. And what developments did we see?
NOTHING!
Must be fun trying to keep the rumor-mill going so the investors don’t ask for results/return on all the money they gave Euclid.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:49 pm
PS. I went to Euclid’s website. Are they still stuck in 2005?
They boast about viewing HD video on a PDA! Have you seen the size of a PDA screen or the hardware resolution? What good is HD on a 2-4 inch screen?
Second they talk about storing movies on your IPod. In 2005 with < 1GB memories maybe. But this is 2008, next week I go camping with a friend, and she already has told me that she has all her Oprah videos and a number of movies saved up to view while camping. Plus she will bring her laptop to stay at the cabin to swap in others if she changes her mind.
PS. My video folder contains 83 movies/episodes and is 16GB in size. Here in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada 16GB USB sells for $39.95, a 8 GB for $29.99, a 4 GB for $14.99 and a 1 GB for $9.99. Prices are less elsewhere.
Why would I want to spend big bucks on vapourware?
July 31st, 2008 at 2:01 pm
>Guess what I’ve heard again that it’s about to POP
Does *anyone* see a message like that and actually take it seriously? Seems hard to believe they would.
My q. is why would Bardo even be bothering to try to pump when there’s no way to dump?
- Mark
September 11th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Relevant phone numbers for Euclid investors.
Massachusetts attorney general 617-727-2200
Kentucky attorney general 502-696-5300
Securities Exchange Commis. 800-SEC-6585
October 17th, 2008 at 5:50 am
What a relevant date for ‘helpisontheway’s’ message.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I would just like to point out in reading their latest flyer that Business Depot is now selling 1 TB size external drives now.
And I only have 360 GB in files on my computers, why did I need Euclid’s software again?
October 18th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Apparently Euc. has sent out new hype investor letter trying to settle investors. Obvious that a select few are giving the co.s talking points for the week or month.Others are to chime in how great euc. is.If thsi pos fails pumpers will have to answer for it from state,fed authorities.
October 18th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Oh,yes. I would also like to add, my main OS is BeOS/Haiku, my girl-friend’s OS is XP, my ex-girl-friend’s OS is Vista, my best friend’s OS is Linux.
At any time I can plug this TB drive into any of these systems to read/write files for exchange and sharing with ZERO SOFTWARE issues.
All of these so-called super compressors claim support for only a limited number of OSes and expect one to pay for a copy for each OS. Not to mention all the possible software conflicts to deal with.
So again, who needs these sky-in-the-pie systems when we have workable plug and play systems right now?
December 21st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
http://www.corista.com/bios.htm
another corporation - same players
December 21st, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Corista looks like it’s just a short 3 mile drive from Euclid. Handy.
It’s been a while since I’ve heard anything from any Euclid investors. Both the company boosters and unhappy group haven’t had much to say.
All I see on Euclid’s site is that they were granted some patents. Nothing about business, products, revenue.
No reason for the status quo to change until the money runs out.
- Mark
December 28th, 2008 at 12:40 am
I recently was brought to the light of the great euclid discoveries and decided to do some research on it since a share cost 12,000 dollars!!! And so far things aren’t looking as good as they were when i was convinced that this investment would be a definite payoff. Does anyone have any clue about the company? I’m not looking to argue with anyone i was just really curious. I’ve read every post and the opinions are mixed. When i first heard of investment it sounded great, when i was told i could invest 12,000 dollars in this company and it was suppose to sell for around 1 billion dollars, which then i was told i could walk away with ten times my original investment if this was true and company sold for 1 billion. I’m just really nervous about this, its very tempting but when something sounds too good to be true it normally is. Could someone with please just give me some kind of information on this euclid company. And once again i’m not a share holder just a possible share holder looking for some helpful information on Euclid. Thanks Guys Please help me with any information, im just looking for some kind of idea of what exactly this company is and some mixed opinions. Thanks again!!
December 28th, 2008 at 9:58 am
@Brandon:
Something strikes me as a little odd about your email.
Regardless, my personal opinion is that this would be a bad investment. Euclid has not demonstrated that they have any sort of product or technology that will support the valuation of $1B that you say you have heard.
Incidentally, how did you decide that one share would be worth $120K? Do you have a complete breakdown of the ownership of the company?
- Mark
December 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I was told about euclid discoveries from a close relative who has shares in the company. And he was the one who told me if it sold for around 1billion at the so called auction i could possible earn around 120,000. But something like this seems to good to be true. That why i started trying to research this company since the site was so vague. I’m 20 years old and this kind of investment could make or break me. I was just looking for some kind of info on company. But thanks for the info let me know of anything else you hear. Thanks
December 28th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Also mark i also did research on corista and it does seem somewhat odd. The similarities of the two are quite scary.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
>I was told about euclid discoveries from a close >relative who has shares in the company.
I’ve often referred to Euclid’s method of raising money as a tupperware scheme. It seems to place a lot of reliance on raising money from angel investors who don’t necessarily know much about what they are getting into.
Stocks are cheap today, if you’ve got $12K to invest why not buy an S&P500 index fund with a super-low cost ratio? You won’t get a 10:1 payoff in 1 year but 200 years of history suggests you’ll get a few points above inflation. Tuck it away for retirement or a new house and it will grow nicely in the long run.
- Mark
December 28th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Assuming you are really asking if this is a good investment don’t try looking at the company, try looking at the market it claims will buy it’s product.
That is the killer problem for all to see, the market is no where as big as Euclid claims, even if it had a real product. If this were the 1990’s there would be a huge demand for a product that would let you store Giga-Bytes of data on hard drives that were a few hundred Mega-Bytes at most in size.
But on Boxing Day (2008) I went out to buy new storage (internal drive) for my laptop as the old hard drive was dying. I ended up with an 8 GB CF card, works great TODAY not sometime in the future. And the *SMALLEST* hard drive I could find for sale was 160GBs! And the largest laptop drive was 360GBs. If I was willing to go to an external drive the largest drive was 1.5 Tera-Bytes!
How many people do you think need more storage than that! More important what is cheaper if you do need more? Buying more hard drives? Waiting a year or two for still bigger ones to come on market? Or paying the big bucks Euclid claims their software is worth?
Euclid is trying to claim that they make Buggy Whips, and someone is willing to pay a billion dollars for the company! True, buggy whips are still being made today, and it is probably a market worth millions world-wide. But you can’t find anyone willing to pay a billion for such a company. The same applies to Euclid, no-one needs their software enough to pay what they claim it is worth.
So it does not matter if they have a working compressor or not (But we know that they don’t because their claims are impossible) because even if it was real you would never make your money back.
Go on try and do it yourself! Try and name who needs their claimed software enough to pay what they want for it!
December 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Alright guys its nice to have an outside opinion on an investment. I also have money in the stock market so maybe with this 12 i will invest a little more. Thanks guys. Keep me posted on any other news.
December 29th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Brandon, your post made no sense. Invest more where?
December 29th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Corista deals with condensing images or still pictures. Euclid deals with condensing video, so perhaps the technology is quite similar, but the end result will be quite separate and distinct.
December 30th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Add again I ask why pay for their unproven garbage when there are working systems available in your local store TODAY!
And I do mean local, I live in a small town (120,000) and Yellow pages list three imaging companies locally who if i go in and slap the cash down can sell my a working system. More if I go into Toronto.
The problem as I keep saying is the claims about how much money they can make vs how much the market is willing to pay is way too large.
January 6th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
if anyone bought euclid units from a LLC that charged investors more than they paid for the units, call your state atty genl office. They seem very interested in this for profit arrangement.
January 7th, 2009 at 6:35 am
>if anyone bought euclid units from a LLC that
>charged investors more than they paid for the
>units,
How is this illegal? Just curious.
I always felt that the use of LLCs was pretty dubious for two reasons.
First, the people who buy stock in an LLC actually don’t have any rights as Euclid shareholders. Which to me says that you would have to be a complete idiot to do this. I mean, if the LLC can buy shares, why can’t I buy the shares myself? Let’s hear a real reason, and if you can’t give me one, why, maybe I’ll keep my retirement money somewhere nice and safe, like in US blue chip stocks!
Second, it seems that using LLCs would be a way to attempt to avoid having Euclid reach the number of shareholders that would trigger the requirement that it start publicly reporting its finances. I don’t know if this is a strategy that is feasible or legal, I’m just speculating that this might be a result of their LLC strategy.
- Mark
January 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
I have no idea why they were interested.
January 10th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Isnt it unusual for a comp’s management to start another co while still working on the first co? i didnt know about corista until now. weird.
January 12th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I’ve also been asked to get in this trade - not sure - been told 12,000 will go to 100,000 this year for sure
January 12th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
@Jeff:
So the first thing you have to ask is how will the fundamentals drive this price?
This is not a publicly traded stock, and since the company has no revenue stream, you can expect nobody is going to be buying up the stock unless a sale is imminent.
In order for another company to purchase Euclid, they would have to have a demonstrated technology that the other company is interested.
Once that is seen, and you come up with a sale price, you can then figure out how much your shares will be worth by looking at preferred shares and common shares, seeing how funds will be distributed, and seeing what your payout will be.
How much of this research have you done? And are you proposing to buy shares from an LLC or directly from Euclid? If from an LLC, have you asked Euclid why you cannot buy your shares directly from them?
- Mark
January 12th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
what i cannot figure out is if their video compression works, how much would microsoft pay for it? In this tight credit market, why would anyone put a lot of cash for something like this?
January 12th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
i would be buying from an LLC because i do not have the money to buy direct
January 12th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
@Jeff:
Is there some reason that Euclid can’t simply lower the price so that angel investors can put their money directly into the company? Why do they need these LLCs? Don’t you wonder about that? Euclid can set the minimums at whatever number they please.
January 12th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
i agree - not sure of the reason for the state minimums and why an LLC could buy single shares but only after they meet the mininum investment. That is what is curious - the LLCs still buy direct from the Company but have the shares issued to the shareholder, except Euclid does not record the individual as a shareholder…..something like that i think
January 12th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
@Jeff:
There is effectively not much market for their product any more.
Companies like Cisco and Apple with large cash reserves love buying stuff during hard times because prices are low. So there is no doubt they might go for something that is useful to them. But there is no business case for this.
You can already store a ton of moves on an iPod. The problem is, since you’re buying them, watching them once, then moving on, there’s really no big reason to save them. Who cares if you can put 2,500 movies on a 10G disk, or whatever the insane promise is?
The only people who still really care about video bandwidth are satellite providers. Everyone else is able to deal with the status quo using the very capable H.264 method.
- Mark
January 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
i might just call the company and speak with them directly about this….because that is the key - if there is no market for the product , what company is going to spend that kind of money to make the risk worth while?
January 14th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Please don’t settle for vague promises.
Demand details if needed, what markets they are going to sell to?
Forget Ipods and PDAs, they are shipping with 16GBs of flash today, and 80-160GBs of hard drive TODAY! A GB is about an hour’s worth of video or over ten hours of sound depending on the amount of present day available compression software. Why should any company pay them extra. And don’t fall for the claim that companies can buy smaller cheaper storage devices. It does not work that way, those smaller units are not being made anymore and special runs will just raise their prices.
What else? High speed on telephone lines? It’s called DSL and it is available today, plus companies have invested too much money to dump the old hardware.
Cell phones, the facts is that cell companies have plenty of bandwidth. It’s their pricing model that is old, no sales there not matter what Euclid claims.
Okay, what else. Storage? Go to your local Business Depot for off the self solutions that don’t need any extra software.
Cable TV, who even uses what is available today on cable, do you really think there is a demand for even double what most cable companies already supply.
Remember, at all times Euclid’s claims about about their stocks’ worth is based on what others will pay for it. But no matter where or who you look at you can’t find anyone to pay the amounts Euclid claims, even worse too many other solutions there *CHEAPER* than Euclid. Why pay $1,000,000,000 for software when you can do it for $50,000,000 using hardware instead?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
And of course, there is no evidence yet that Euclid can do what they are claiming.
- Mark
January 14th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
So what in the world is going to happen to these investors? I mean, some folks have put a ton of money in Euclid thinking that there is going to be a huge payoff this year. And, i heard it would be 12 into 100, virtually guaranteed.
January 15th, 2009 at 6:27 am
@Jeff:
Well that much is easy to explain: they will lose all their money. When Euclid finally burns up all the cash, they will go into bankruptcy, either Chapter 7 or 11. Whatever assets can be disposed of will be used to pay off vendors, landlords, etc. Then everyone who invested money in the company can declare their stock worthless and start deducting it from their taxes as a loss, $3,000 a year I believe.
>And, i heard it would be 12 into 100,
>virtually guaranteed.
I think Bernie Madoff promised very attractive returns to his investors, and he managed to lose $50B. Euclid is small potatoes in comparison.
If they had a product that was guaranteed to get that kind of rate of return they would have had no problem raising funds from real investors who knew what they were doing, instead of naive tupperware party investors. It’s a shame.
- Mark
January 15th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
How can you believe anyone claim without solid proof after what has happened to the stock market.
Thousands of stock brokers having been telling millions of people that their money was safe too. Ask anyone who’s life savings were wiped out or reduced to a small fraction of their original claimed worth whether trusting the stock brokers protected them?
And these are people investing money in companies making/shipping/selling real products - and they still lost out.
Yet, here is someone making claims about a product that they have never demoed to you, why would you give them any more trust?
January 15th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
i guess that is the real question. I havent seen the product demo’ed - i can understand the idea behind it. But - i just do not understand how it can be valued like that. Moreover, if it were valued at a Billion dollars, then their investment bankers - Allen and Company - will take a pretty penny, the management will get a nice slice, then the investors will get a part. Not sure what the investment bankers’ cut would be but i cannot image it would be small.
January 16th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Now you are starting to ask the right questions. And some that don’t even need you to understand the computer side of it at all.
If you don’t have it in writing, then the promise ‘is no better the paper it’s written on’.
This is a scam, pure and simple. But let’s leave it at that and say the scammers are still able to sell the company to someone for a billion dollars. Next the money needs to to be split up to the investors.
Like you say, the bankers want their share, but how much of the company do the insiders own? Remember, since the outside authorities do not need to be reported to they could have easily voted themselves extra shares and you would never know.
Next thing you know you find yourself being paid ten cents on the dollar and the insiders walking (running out of the country before the scam blows up) away with all the dough.
Again, demand info in writing. All their words about how much stock you own is meaningless if they have voted themselves a hundred time more stock. Demand percentage and payback amounts in writing.
And this is BUSINESS! There are NO excuses for when someone tries to weasel out of giving ALL the facts!
PS. Any garbage about the banks trusting them should be thrown back into their faces. If the banks really knew what they were doing would we be in this economic situation today?
May 20th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
I see that Euclid Investors blog has been shut down. Does this mean the gig is up?
Sorry guys but after 9 years in your heart you must have known this was coming!
May 21st, 2009 at 7:47 am
@Green Turn:
The Euclid Discovery site is still up, and presumably the officers are still drawing down the remaining investor funds for rent and salary. I don’t see that coming to an end any time soon. Because of the foolish LLC distribution system they bought into, the investors are powerless to do anything about it.
If they had any muscle, the thing to do would be to liquidate and return any remaining funds to the poor shareholders. But that won’t happen, and because of their impotence, all they can do is keep touting the company line, billion dollar sale right around the corner.
It won’t die with a bang, just a whimper.
- Mark
June 1st, 2009 at 12:30 pm
How can they claim a billion dollar sales in today’s market?
Not only is there no need by anyone out there for compression that can not just be meet with less money spent on hardware, but who even have a billion to throw around?
During the Dot.Com boom there was mad money being spent like crazy on all sorts of dumb stuff, but who spends money like that now?
The few people/companies that I know of are capable of that type of spending have no need for compression software - and that includes Apple and MicroSoft. Neither will see an increase in sales from compression software to pay that kind of price.
June 3rd, 2009 at 7:05 am
Earl, go back to building model rockets. The fastest growing component on the web is video. And the next big growth area will be cloud computing.
Don’t say there is no need for compression. Whether anyone is going to be willing to pay huge sums for it remains to be seen. The growth and need for larger demand, speed and definition cannot be met by hardware alone. If you honestly believe that, go back and put on your tin foil helmet.
Finally I am not sure why you feel the need to constantly keep up the negative dialogue. As someone asked a long time ago, do you have a horse in this race?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
> Earl, go back to building model rockets. The fastest growing component on the web is video.
So what? As a person with GBs of videos already downloaded onto my computer I never found a need for more compression than is presently in use (I am talking DIVX not MPEG-2). There are only 24 hours in a day and at present the video data downloads faster than I can view it. Better compression would be nice, but it will not make any easyier to view more shows/movies/anime so why pay for an extra feature that I don’t needed?
And please don’t bring up that old chestnut about storage limits, TB drives are off-the-shelf items now. Today it is now cheaper to add more hardware than pay the suggested price of these ‘magic’ compressors.
> And the next big growth area will be cloud computing.
Which has nothing to do with data compression, stick to the subject of the blog.
> Don’t say there is no need for compression. Whether anyone is going to be willing to pay huge sums for it remains to be seen.
I never said there was no need, find a single post where I claim that! What I have said is with today’s present working and available to everybody (ZIP, RAR, MPEG, DIVX) compressors and with today’s large hard drives why would anyone pay a large sum of money for a pie-in-the-sky product that no-one has even seen pass a honest test?
> The growth and need for larger demand, speed and definition cannot be met by hardware alone. If you honestly believe that, go back and put on your tin foil helmet.
The bandwidth/standards/hardware already meet the needs of HD-Video today, the fact that you are living in some back-water location is not my fault. But HD-Video is already available on air/cable today without the need of your so-claimed needed magic tech. And HD-Video has been available for downloading for years - I suggest you get a better ISP if that is your problem.
Do people want more? Of-course they do. Do people want to pay more? Of-course they don’t.
The compression/bandwidth tech of today already meets the needs, so again why pay more?
>Finally I am not sure why you feel the need to constantly keep up the negative dialogue.
And why do you feel a need to hype an unproven product?
I do because (1) I can. (2) I hate liars in a field that is a hobby of mine. (3) I hope to warn people of people like you pushing snake-oil claims. (4) It is fun watching people like you foam at the mouth when faced to see the truth posted.
> As someone asked a long time ago, do you have a horse in this race?
Compression is one of my hobbies, and I like to keep the scam-artists out of my hobby.
What is your excuse for supporting a scam?
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Ps. All anyone has to do to stop me posting all these negative comments about magical compressors is show one working under conditions that prevent a scam from being carried out.
So far after years of claims not one person/organization that claimed to have a magic compressor has been willing to a proper “Two Computer Test” or send out a demo software for indepentant testing.
As for stealing IP, is it not funny how the producers of ZIP, RAR, StuffIt, MPEGs, DIVX and others all make money even with millions of free copies of thier software on machines worldwide. Also the publishers of BWT, BZIP, PNM, etc all seem to make a living with their stuff being given out for free?
So far, the only money I have seen any of the magic compressor companies make is off the stocks they sell to people who know nothing about data compression.
And after all these years not one single working product (not even a poor compression ratio one).
June 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
hmmm
I’m new to this
here is an impressive ‘compressor’: the English language.
26 letters, able to convey a huge amount of information.
More letters than needed? Gaelic I hear has 18 letters.
Still more than needed?
Try 16?
DNA has four: “C:, “G”, “A’, “T”
Another thing: in the past, technologies have been discovered that at the time, appear to have “no market”. When Graham Alexander Bell presented the telephone, he was told “get that toy off my desk”, was he not?
The CCD was “a failed computer chip”, curious, but slow. However, turned out it was great for pictures.
I have discovered (apparently) how to generate holograms from natural light (no lasers)- allowing possibly “star wars” movie-like holography.
Data compression: if you ‘compressed’ twenty different movies to simply “01″: well, that’s done by labelling them- but you wouldn’t know which was which.
However,
…
here is a fun book: “Godel, Escher, Bach. An Eternal Golden Braid” by Douglas Hofstadter.
If I give away my possibility of new technology for free, will someone sponsor me to NZ$1 million?
June 12th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Well, Alan I see a lot of meaningless wordage from you, but still no sign of the magic compressor/decompresser this thread is about.
So again, why are you supporting this scam?
June 14th, 2009 at 1:22 am
curious:
have now figured out why a video compression company would be called “Euclid Discoveries”; and a possible way for video data compression!
Also: made further progress on ideas re: general data compression; turns out what I have found could be described as “a space computer”; this makes sense, as to fit data in the smallest possible space, you would need “a space computer”.
June 15th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
And so far still a lot of meaningless wordage without a working compressor/decompressor.
Feelings don’t help you write working computer code, proper math does.
You are still supporting a scam if you can’t show a working set of programs or a readable math model.
All else is wishful thinking.
June 15th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I simply happened (having wondered, incidentally, why on earth this company was called “Euclid Discoveries”), to discover a method (in theory) of “video data compression”, that, on the face of a sketchy model so far, appears may work, and appears to be a type of “space computer” (suggesting it really does work! ); and, curiously, gave me a possible explanation as to why the company is called “Euclid Discoveries”.
I have no bias for or against “Euclid Discoveries”, other than what is published about them may influence me (as it may influence anyone).
Do you want a working compressor/decompressor? Why not make it, with my knowledge) via an nda and intellectual property rights deal? Maybe 50-50?
I know about “proper math”; it actually makes life easier as it gives me a rigorous system to test the idea, and has provided valuable understanding as to how this (or “space computers” in general) may (eventually) work.
I do not know if Euclid discoveries can fulfill your requirements of “not being a scam”. For my own discoveries, shouldn’t be too difficult. I can already show whoever signs an nda, if trustworthy, enough probably to satisfy the level of evidence you would neeed to be convinced this can probably work…?
June 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I have three working compressors available to anyone who wants to download them!
White Hole, Grey Hole, and Black Hole.
ALL are public domain and are available to anyone to test, all they have to do is go to the old Amiga Archives to find them. They are all in source code form and are well documented for anyone to translate if they wish.
There is also some compressor/decompressor code of mine own design to be found in my RAMDISK, again freely available to all if they run BeOS, available for downloading in source form on http://www.bebits.com
I have written/tested compression/decompression code both mine own and that of others, and that experience tells me that these companies are just scams.
NO, I REPEAT NO — working compressor/decompressor combination found in the real world that you can use today has ever taken more than a few weeks to proof the theory, or more than a couple of months to get working properly.
You can point to all the *WORKING* compressors you like and how long they have been in development/improvement. But not one of them took even a year to get a working demo on the market or available for download.
The fact that these companies taken your money and never even show a demo after all these years that can pass even basic security testing is proof that they are all scams.
What experience do you have with how hard it is to write working code? Not counting college work, my first serious (paid to delevop for a business) was in 1982.
I have written (was paid for too) accounting, inventory, and text editting programs for businesses that needed the code to work.
For personal use, I have been wiring a Logix to play board games when I was 14 (1970), I was writting programs on a microcomputer of my own design in 1975, I have been coding on commerially available computers (Mainframe, Mini, and Micro) since 1978.
I know how hard it is to develop good code, but it is not as hard as these companies make it out to be to write a working demo of a compression program.
June 18th, 2009 at 4:10 am
So you honestly believe H.264 took a couple of months to build and test? Wow, you must be brilliant. REPEAT THIS: It took a lot of smart people a lot longer than that. ED is next-generation video compression technology but backwards compatible with H.264.
June 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Take off the tin hat, put on your glasses and learn to read carefully.
I said it took only a few weeks/months to ###DEMO and PROOF### the idea. And that the ****VERY FIRST*** versions that were put to use by alpha/beta testers were within a year.
This has nothing to do with how long it took to refine and debug the hardware and software for final use. Only just how long it took to prove if the idea was worth investing money into.
Most compression software for sale that is out there has been in constant development for years and years. But you can’t find a single one that was hidden away for years without even a working demo to show investors, except for these ‘magic’ compressors than no matter how much money they collect never have even a working demo to show.
June 20th, 2009 at 11:27 am
What happened to euclidinvestors.com?
June 20th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
I learned to write simple “Fortran” programs (like to solve quadratic equations) at College
in the late 70s. I used Apple “Basic” to draw a picture of my chemistry teacher. I have written very few programs. Guess I could learn a modern language and try and write my own program, though am very busy inventing new things.
What does it cost to hire a programmer to write a “hyper-compression” program (using the science-discoveries I have apparently made on how to achieve “space-computer” technology”)?
June 21st, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Who says they don’t have a working mode? Just because they don’t show it to you doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist. In fact I know they are just finishing up a fully developed product that they will be introducing sooner than later. A number of people have seen it. Have you gone to thier website and looked at their service partners. People like that don’t allow you to use their names if you are just a scam company. If I was building ground breaking technology I would not make it public either. Nobody in the company needs your approval. You would be the last person in the world we would show it too. We will see soon.
June 23rd, 2009 at 6:52 am
@Green Turn:
>What happened to euclidinvestors.com?
The guy who ran the board had some trouble with the domain name and his provider, and I think he basically gave up on it.
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:02 am
@Tin Foil Hat:
>In fact I know they are just finishing up a fully
>developed product that they will be introducing
>sooner than later.
It doesn’t matter - the market for anything ED could have produced has come and gone. People are watching video on their iPhones using existing technology, people are downloading HD video from Amazon and Netflix using existing technology. There is no billion-dollar market for what at best would be a marginal improvement over existing H.264.
>Have you gone to thier [sic] website and looked at
>their service partners. People like that don’t allow
>you to use their names if you are just a scam company.
Yes, actually it is quite easy to use the names of reputable companies even if you are total scammers. I imagine if you looked at the web pages of Enron right before they imploded you would have found names like Arthur Anderson, et. al., making it look quite reputable. Don’t use that web page as an attempt to imply some sort of legitimacy - doesn’t count.
>We will see soon.
No, we will not. Any idiot can say this, and plenty haven been saying it for what must be getting close to eight years or so. It seems more and more likely that the emperor has been naked from day one.
If the Euclid investors hadn’t been suckered into a two-tiered program that strips them of voting rights, they would probably force liquidation and try to get back maybe five cents on the dollar. Since that won’t happen, the existing employees and board will continue to draw salaries, happily answering to nobody, until the accounts run dry. They will then quietly disappear.
At least that’s my uninformed opinion. And has been for six years. Not a hint yet that I’m wrong.
- Mark
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Mark, I agree with you 100%.
Tin Foil Hat, the statement ‘real soon now’ is something we heve been hearing for years, and still no working demos in sight. Your claim is just words that anyone can post.
SHOW ME THE DEMO!!!!
August 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Last post was June 23rd. No one has anything new to add? Has anyone spoke with anyone to get their current storry of how close they are?
August 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I apparently have whatever they invented, by logical deduction. Why don’t their investors buy what i have? It may help their idea fine-tune. Wouldn’t that be a reasonable idea? ???????
August 20th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Think they will ever sell this thing?
August 21st, 2009 at 6:42 am
@Mike:
You look like you are trying to get a response Mike - do you by any chance own some Euclid stock?
- Mark
August 26th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Yes I bought 1 unit over two years ago.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:34 am
@Mike:
First, it is strange to hear you say you bought “1 unit”.
If you invested in Euclid, you should be the possessor of stock in Euclid Discoveries (generally measured in shares.) As such you have certain rights, including the right to be present at their annual meeting and ask questions of the board and officers. Have you ever received notice of an annual meeting? If you haven’t, the SEC might be interested.
However, I’m concerned that you might simply own 1 unit of some other LLC that has shares in Euclid - this is what I have referred to in the past as the tupperware strategy of isolating the company from investors.
Presumably you have a piece of paper somewhere that you got when you handed over a check. What does it say? What do you own?
- Mark
August 27th, 2009 at 8:43 am
1 Unit in an LLC that owns Euclid shares. If I would bout the shares directly, I would have had to buy 5. I was told that they were called units because it wasn’t a public traded company.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
@Mike:
I’m certainly no lawyer, so I have no idea how shady this strategy was legally. But clearly in practical terms it had the effect of getting money from people like you without giving them the legal protection normally given to stockholders. Bad deal. Bad on you for buying into into it.
If it was my money, I’d be talking to Euclid and asking them to treat me exactly as if I were a stockholder. They need to give you an annual financial report, and you should be getting an invite to the meeting. If they deny you these rights, you should complain to the SEC. The feds might take the stance that an an LLC that is set up solely for the purpose of buying Euclid shares is tantamount to being part of Euclid. I don’t know, but the strategy clearly doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Call up the company tomorrow and ask for the latest report, the minutes of the last shareholder’s meeting, and ask them when the next meeting is going to be. While you’re at it, ask to speak to the CEO and ask him how things are going. You are an owner of the company, act like it.
Oh and forget about your money. It’s gone dude. All you can expect to get now is a final accounting of where it went. Lots of salaries paid out over the last six or seven years. Good deal for those who got the checks.
- Mark
August 27th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Mark,
Let me clear up some issues. Euclid sold units or shares through a subscription agreement based upon SEC regulations. There were subsequent LLC’s formed without the direct knowlege of ED, which sold individual shares or units. As a result individuals could buy shares, without meeting SEC conditions. They were like after market shares. I am not sure of the legality of the LLC’s selling shares but I know that ED was careful to isolate themselves and did not solicite such sales.
The minimum investment has alway been $60K and all direct investors had to meet current SEC conditions. Whether they tacitly agreed and were aware of such sales is a completely different kettle of fish. I have heard through the grapevine that some LLC directors marked up the shares and made a profit.
People who bought 1 share, did not meet SEC regs, or did not invest the minimum 60K have their respective LLC’s to answer to, not necessarily the company itself. The real question is what legal rights do the LLC unit holders have with their various LLC directors? Ultimately, if there ever is any value in the units, it will be ED’s responsibility to pay the LLC and then the LLC will pay off its investors.
Wonder what the vig and management fees will be on that? Lot’s of things to wonder about????
August 28th, 2009 at 6:16 am
>here were subsequent LLC’s formed without
>the direct knowlege of ED, which sold
>individual shares or units.
I need to be clear that I have absolutely no knowledge about how these LLCs were organized, who did it, and whether Euclid had any knowledge or interest in them.
I’ll stick by what I’ve said in the past: investors in LLCs are victims of a bad deal, and are being taken advantage of, whether willingly or not. They have given up the rights that are normally accorded shareholders in a company, and have really gotten nothing in return.
Further, Euclid in effect has been able to enlarge the size of their investor pool with being subject to the additional SEC scrutiny and oversight that kicks in when the number reaches a certain size.
I would like to think that some regulations exist that prevent this kind of abuse, but my minimal knowledge about the topic comes up with nothing concrete.
Realistically, all the poor suckers I’ve come in contact with were basically duped, and didn’t deserve to lose their money. Regardless of what they signed, I can assure you that they were NOT AWARE of the risks they were taking.
Who duped them? I don’t know. Do they have any recourse? I don’t know.
One thing is certain: they’re never getting their money back. There is no value in those units. Most of the cash must have been spent long ago, slowly frittered away on salaries, rent, and those management fees you talk about. Any technology that exists has no value. The only question is whether the poor shareholders want to move on or make a stink.
- Mark
August 28th, 2009 at 11:27 am
All these investor who keep waiting for something to happen seem to be spending thier time in ‘magical thinking’. IE. Thinking if they believe/wish for something hard enough that it will come true.
Of-course, the basic fault with their wishes is that this is no longer the 1990’s and a multi-billion dollar market no longer exists for compression software, no matter how good it is.
Worse, they repeatly refuse to test the stated claims these scam companies because the dream of big money turns off thier reasoning abilities (if they do have any in the first place).
Notice how most scams always talk about the big bucks first and foremost. And the investors fall all over themselves to put out money without gaining any stocks or contracts.
Even investors in Elron and Brex got back cents on the dollar because they bought stocks. Investors buying units in LLCs are not even offered that much security.
September 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I completely agree that Euclid Discoveries is a scam at this point, even if it had started off as a well meaning startup. Given how much some of these people have invested, I can understand why they’d be in denial; that would create a lot of cognitive dissonance. At some point they really need to just accept it, because they’re causing financial damage to their families and to potential future investors.
However, I’m confused by your statements regarding the hypothetical scenario of video compression that has a 10x or greater improvement over H.264. I understand not wanting to invest large amounts into such a thing, but it seems like you’re saying that such compression is unneeded regardless because of current hardware. That’s sort of like saying “640k is enough for everybody.” I apologize if I’m misunderstanding your standpoint, but if you are making a general statement of its usage, this applies.
It’s certainly not a multi-billion dollar industry anymore, but anyone who invented such a thing would easily be a multi-millionaire. Considering that would increase the effect size of a leading iPod from 120GB to 1.2TB+, people would easily shell out $50 or more per unit (assuming exclusive patent rights of course). For something that sells millions, that’s a lot of dough.
Many such people like to have and keep their videos to play many times in the future (i.e. same as viewing reruns with entertainment or reviewing material if it’s educational). Being able to store more would be great for both desktops and portables, since you can store and/or carry a much larger collection with you. Otherwise, people would never buy optical discs or keep videos on computers/DVRs for long periods of time.
There’s also clear benefits to streaming video. Most broadband connections in the U.S. can’t stream 1080p HD quality video and that is hardly the highest conceivable quality that the human eye can differentiate (i.e. storing at higher resolutions for future displays would be beneficial).
And then there’s the benefits to an TV companies, whether satellite, cable, or internet/fiber based. It means that they need to do much less frequent and expensive infrastructure upgrades. Yours and Earl’s statements suggest that money grows on trees, so it’s no big deal to roll out such upgrades (companies like Comcast are actually behind where they should be in many respects). None of this even considers the many parts of the world that don’t have anything close to the network infrastructure the U.S. has, let alone what Canada has.
Then there is the future to think of. High resolution displays need not be restricted to their current sizes. As the hardware becomes more available, you can maintain the dpi, while getting increasingly larger displays. Or you could imagine higher quality VR goggles that let you view the movie on a larger virtual display. This all requires larger sized video.
~The End~
September 4th, 2009 at 8:33 am
@njyoder:
There are a couple of problems with your analysis.
First, let’s posit that this 10X codec does indeed exist. Should Apple decide to put this in an iPod, they would have to pay Euclid a royalty for each one shipped. To say that they would pay $50 is simply insane. Right now Apple pays just pennies in royalties for each codec they use. Adding $50 to the COGS of an iPod would raise the list price by at least $250. Would anybody pay an extra $250 for the extra capacity? Not so many - certainly not enough for Apple to to try to justify it.
The market simply will not bear expensive IP like this when most people are satisfied with the amount of storage they already have. There are just not enough consumer dollars out there to make billions off the iPod market.
You run into the same type of math arguments if you look at broadcasting to consumers. The rapdily declining cost of extra bandwidth simply puts a cap on what the market can bear, and it’s not $50/consumer. Not even close.
Of course, the biggest problem with all this is that the 10X codec does not exist. :-)
- Mark
September 9th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
any idea what’s the latest on “Euclid Discoveries?”
heard there was a BIG meeting in California this week.
How many years has the “PARTY” been planned for when they sell this thing?
September 12th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
>To say that they would pay $50 is simply insane. Right now Apple pays just pennies in royalties for each codec they use. Adding $50 to the COGS of an iPod would raise the list price by at least $250. Would anybody pay an extra $250 for the extra capacity?
You have to realize that they are licensing it for use in multiple technologies, not just iPods. In aggregate, they’d make quite a lot.
They wouldn’t have to raise the list price by any more than $50, although they’d probably raise it by about $100 because they know it would sell well, as they’d easily make a lot more in sales (it’s a hypothetical figure anyway, even $25 would still be a lot). That $50 is equivalent to a 10x capacity increase. How much do you think Apple would pay if they could get 1.2TB flash drive for the same price as a 120GB flash drive in an exclusive deal (a 200GB flash drive increase alone could easily make that up–flash isn’t that cheap and even a HD based player still isn’t THAT cheap at that size)? Remember, iPods like the nano are limited by their small size and the most expensive ones are only 16GB.
Apple can capitalize even further by offering higher quality and more video on iTunes, as well. Remember, iPods are the most popular portable player and I don’t know the iTunes figures off hand, but they’re definitely top 3.
Millions of people lined up to buy an iPhone when it was $600 and millions more since it’s gone down to around $400 (it’s the best selling cell phone AFAIK). People are easily willing to pay top dollar for Apple products, especially if it was something that would let them store tons more videos and your entire music collection (even for large ones).
> The market simply will not bear expensive IP like this when most people are satisfied with the amount of storage they already have.
Since when? They’re always pushing storage limits for EVERYTHING, not just iPods and the market ALWAYS creates a new use for it, hence why 640k wasn’t enough for everybody (for the next 10 years–I just checked the real quote). If Apple tried pulling a Gates (the 640k quote), they’d have gone out of business long, long ago.
iPod video players are getting increasingly popular, and who wouldn’t want to carry a whole bunch of high quality (compared to current portable player standards) movies and shows with them?
>You run into the same type of math arguments if you look at broadcasting to consumers. The rapdily declining cost of extra bandwidth simply puts a cap on what the market can bear, and it’s not $50/consumer. Not even close.
How do you get the same arguments? Comcast, one of the largest U.S. providers, has already put a 250GB cap on user connections. The U.S.’s bandwidth situation is worse than it is in Canada and much of East Asia, where they actually do have pretty cheap bandwidth.
They, along with the other cable and telephone companies, are slow at rolling out changes (DOCSIS 2 is still predominant and it’s 8 years old) and almost never meet their advertised bandwidth. There are companies now capitalizing on hardware to block torrents and such, because it’s consuming too much bandwidth–broadband is simply not increasing fast enough, not nearly as fast as storage capacity is increasing.
Plus, most broadband users can’t even view HD quality streaming video, so how would a 10x increase not be helpful?
They’d work out some kind of different pricing scheme for these users, since it’s a service not a product, probably some royalty on the order of tens of cents per video. I don’t know enough about the figures to say how that’s compare to the iPod market, but it’s something that would still provide a sizable amount.
Then you have to consider wireless users, who are the worst off of all categories. 3G has been delayed by years and just recently has been rolling out, and as the experts expected, it isn’t living up to expectations. The reality of wireless internet is always much worse than the promises once they finally do get rolled out.
Additionally, wireless technologies have fundamental limitations that are much lower than with wired technologies. Higher speeds means greater power consumption for the device, which is one major issue. There is also the fact that just developing these standards and rolling them out takes forever. Lastly, you have to cope with the limited band space–you have limited number of frequencies a device can use for that bandwidth and this is the biggest issue in densely packed urban areas.
So going from what might be a few hundred Kbps wireless internet (depending heavily on conditions) to Mbps would be a huge godsend.
I think the combined value of such things would easily put them past the $100 million mark within a year, if such a compression algorithm actually existed.
September 15th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
good points- it’s a beautiful algorithm so-to-speak; where oh where are the buyers? I seem to have found what they are looking for?
September 16th, 2009 at 11:52 am
I have to apologize to everyone on the blog for calling myself Tin Foil Hat, as the name really should belong to Alan. Whew.
September 16th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
It seems many of you have followed the history of these guys running Euclid. I have some questions for you.
How many times have they had this thing ready to go to the bank? How many times have they said that there will be no more shares sold and then start selling more shares? Someone said that the main man said that Euclid would definitely be sold this year. How many times have they said it would be sold before the year is out?
September 16th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Yes, I too would like to hear from others whom have invested in the Euclid Discoveries dream. Folks waiting for their BIG pay day.
How many years have they had this thing ready to go to the bank?
How many times have they said that there will be no more ‘UNITS’ sold and then start selling more UNITS?
Someone said that the “main man” said Euclid would definitely be sold this year. How many times have they said it would be sold before the year is out?
Has anyone else heard that Microsoft, Apple, Google & a company out of China are all expressing an interest in the final product?
At what point will my Uncle realize this is a scam?
September 17th, 2009 at 5:39 am
@Curious Too:
The place for your uncle to start getting to the truth on this is in Euclid’s Annual Report. Either he, or the LLC he foolishly invested in, should receive an annual report from Euclid. He should get a copy and make it public so that it can receive some realistic analysis.
If the company did not provide a report in the last 12 months, it should be reported to the SEC.
If his LLC refuses to give him a copy of the report, again, a complaint should be made to the SEC.
- Mark
September 17th, 2009 at 8:16 am
Thank you Mark.
It difficult.
He still has hope of this euclid thing panning out.
Trouble is, he is older, on a fixed income, holding on to this dream.
Guess I’m just an ol’ country boy. Raised differently. I couldn’t sleep at night knowing that I purposefully ripped people off, no matter how good the intentions were to begin with.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:09 am
Here’s something: 10MB is the limit for e-mailing attachments; so imagine fitting a 2 hour high definition video movie into 10MB?
Or the data limit on texting allowing far greater data than currently…
September 18th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Ok Alan. So does Euclid really have this? And if so, when will they decide to sell it instead of continuing work on it?
October 20th, 2009 at 8:11 am
Alan, I think the term you are looking for is ‘MARK’ not ‘INVESTOR’.
All your claims smell like a scam to me.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:52 pm
There is no scam of any description here. The only risk is that I may have overlooked something, I qualify the discovery as “apparent”, it has not been fully tested, only tested by logical questioning.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:40 am
Interesting, as to my knowledge all compression scams that try to collect other people’s money have made the same claims about testing.
If you want to prove you are otherwise, you will have to do REAL TESTS with REAL DATA! All else is you just blowing hot air. In otherwords, worthless.
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Euclid Discoveries is about to come through for its Angel Investors…just wait until next month…
Wait a minute, heard that last month, & the month before, & the month before, & the month before…
Is there anyone out there that still believes they will see ANYTHING for their “investment” ?
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 pm
I don’t have the money to do “real tests with real data”. Poverty is not the same as a scam: a scam is a deliberate deception. If someone wants to have a possibility of success, then take me seriously. A trustworthy investor can sign an NDA and check it out before spending anything on licensing the invention.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Does anybody out there still believe in Euclid Discoveries?
Any “investors” think they will EVER see anything?
ANYBODY OUT THERE?
November 14th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Allen,
What is your interest in Euclid? Based on your posts, it seems like you’re trying to bait an investor to comment so you can slam them down. Would it make you feel better to discover that Euclid did not reach it’s goal and shut their doors? Then or course, you could say, “I told you so” and bask in self satisfaction, I guess?
November 16th, 2009 at 8:48 am
@NotAnAngel,
If anyone basks in satisfaction at the failure of Euclid, it will only be because of the vitriol spewed forth by their supporters. I’ve been on the receiving end of quite a few of those comments, both public and private.
Unfortunately, the current state of technology means that shareholders have little or not chance of even breaking even on their investment. Knowing this, the board ought to dissolve the company and disburse whatever cash is left, and stop using it to pay executive salaries.
I wonder what current shareholders in Euclid think about Corista?
- Mark
November 16th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Well I guess if the original plan was never valid, but was in fact to make a never ending big salary why would they ever close up shop now? Seems to me after 10 years they will ride this puppy until there are no suckers left. Actually they have tapped into a whole new group of suckers who believe they are all going to be rich. Thanksgiving??? Million $ units?????
November 16th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
From what I hear, investors are given BS “projected” completion dates along with claims of riches that happen to be right around fundraising time. Hey “AM”, I assume Thanksgiving is the latest date? Give a post the Monday after and let us know. I’d venture to say, a new date will be established. Xmas? New Years? Valentines Day? St Pats? Memorial Day?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
@AMANANGEL:
Yeah I’ve heard rumors that shareholders are being promised a Thanksgiving feast - very appropriate for a New England company.
They did issue a press release announcing their 73rd patent application. I guess this is to prove they aren’t standing still. I can only find 7 patents and open applications assigned to Euclid Discoveries in the USPTO database, so the number 73 probably must include a lot of foreign filings and undisclosed applications.
Still, it’s hard to see where any payday is going to come from. Go back in time and read the promises made in 2006:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/13/technology/13iht-Video.html
Three and a half years after that initial demo, nothing of note from ED.
Right now I can’t see a business case for anyone to buy this company or its technology. Even if it was as good as they claim (which they have not demonstrated) the bandwidth savings just don’t offer a compelling value proposition - at least not at the billion dollar levels that the boosters have been talking about.
- Mark
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
With direct TV and my iphone I can watch complete live NFL games. Not sure how an increase in compression is going to bring about a billion dollar sale. Maybe 3 years ago before you could watch TV and movies on your computer you could use that in your sales pitch. I have to believe the people still buying units really don’t understand technology. Companies selling intellectual property and no revenue do not get bought for that type of money. Not now, not ever. There is an old saying……if it sounds too good to be true……..
November 17th, 2009 at 7:13 am
Based on my understanding from a couple of their investors, if the company misses this Thanksgiving goal, a group is waiting to go public with some type of investigation into the inner workings? Many feel like they are being scammed.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Hey you, We both know they never promised Thanksgiving and they never promised billions. They let their BF’s, TA’s, and BW’s do that for them…. Actually those guys are last years news, we have a whole new group of guru’s and disciples spreading the gospel. In ED and Corista we trust. I am going to be rich, by the end of the year, guaranteed. Just not sure what year. Have heard the same story going on almost 10 years.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Hmmmmmmmmm
if the NASA scientists wish to get the Mars Rover “spirit” out of the Martian sand drift it has apparently been stuck in for 6 months, we need to talk (the secret is apparently related to why “Euclid Discoveries” is called “Euclid discoveries”….)
Here is an application for “very extreme data “compression”: teleportation
This technology as far as i have theoretically worked it out, is for sale !
November 24th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
if you are still waitin’ on a payday from Euclid, well, there IS one born every day.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Let me give you update. Thanksgiving comes and goes.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:24 am
I wonder if any of the investors in ED are being encourage to double down on Corista? Being another Wingard enterprise, perhaps Corista is taking the same Tupperware/Blind Angel approach to gathering investors. It also appears that, like Euclid, their business success is being predicated on some new compression secret sauce.
- Mark
November 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Wait! There’s still 8 hours before Thanksgiving! Maybe they meant 2010?
November 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Nothing.
Thanksgiving has come & gone.
Nothing.
Still “crunching the numbers.”
What a bunch of crap.
EVEN if they had something, it’s outdated by now, & besides, there are no “buyers” of this fake product.
The Fat Lady has sung.
Now, Corista on the other hand…
November 29th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Who ever posted comment #180, try and get your own user name! While I tend to agree with your comment, why don’t you generate an original name for yourself?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Seems like the folks at Euclid keep coming up with new excuses and more delays. Of course they missed their Thanksgiving deadline and I’m sure they’ll miss whatever new deadline they “accidentally” let leak out through selected new investors. I am pretty sure that a group of investors is already putting together a plan to hire an attorney and a forensic accountant to determine just what (if anything) is going on. Looks like the scam is about to be exposed!!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 6:30 am
Here’s a message for you, Alan:
Are you nuts? I have a bridge in Louisville, KY I’d like to sell you if you’re interested — it spans the Ohio River but has no connection to either the Kentucky or Indiana shore. It’s a great bridge — you just can’t use it! Sounds to me like what it is you are trying to stir up interest in!
November 30th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Anyone want to bet there is no conclusion or reasonable explanation of why we were not done on Thanksgiving as promised, or how much longer it is going to take.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:55 am
Or until they need more money. Then of course we are days away and worth double digit billions. How pathetic.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Hey Fatso,
I’ve heard the same thing with the addition of a new investors blog. Seems like the angel community is starting to come here for info? I believe the angels think that the ED principles are making a real big salary and will string this along as long as they can with no end. Maybe that acct will provide some insight?
November 30th, 2009 at 8:40 am
BW has sent out text’s this AM. Good move, keep people informed with timely, honest updates. Explain why it is taking longer, give updated, expected timelines even if they are missed and we will be reasonable.
I am not sure how they could start a countdown a year ago. Get to 95% and then tell people there will not be another update until they are done. Nine months later still not done, and not expect investor angst, and anger.
Probably because they have been able to get away with it for 10 years.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Guess what?
They will “get away” with it for another ten years.
Old, old game, the ponzi. A scheme that is a fraudulent investment operation, in this case that pays returns to itself (staff) from their investors’ money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors to keep the scheme going.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to know just how many ‘units’ have been sold (& or given away to keep people happy & quiet) over the past several years?
“We think so much of you & appreciate you so much, we are going to give you a unit.”
A unit of nothing is still…………….nothing.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
From what I have seen of these people I could see them giving units away to keep people quiet. It seems like I heard a story one time about how they were going to give someone a unit that was having such a hard time.
I hope that there really are people putting together an investigation. We may be able to shut this thing down before anymore people get had. It is sad because a lot of the people who invested in Euclid are people that couldn’t afford to invest. They have borrowed and done with out things that they need just because they were led to believe that they could have a piece of the American Dream. I hope if Euclid is shut down that They go straight to Corista.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:11 am
For the last four years or so, ED has pushed their entire stack of chips on their bet that they can do feature based modeling.
In a nutshell, feature based modeling should allow for greatly improved compression. Just as an example, let’s say you are going to compress the Glenn Beck show from Fox News. The idea is that you create a mathematical model of Glenn’s head. Then, instead of transmitting the massive number of pixels needed to represent Glenn’s head in a given frame, you simply pass a few parameters, like where his head is in the image, what angle it is at, and so on. Ta-da, massive compression.
So this is a great idea, and it might really work for something like the movie Shrek. Why? Because Shrek is already created using a digital model, and we really can draw a nice realistic picture of Shrek using a smaller list of parameters.
But Glenn Beck’s head? Like most things in the real world, it’s pretty messy, and defies a neat model. It is likely to turn out that the number of parameters and the complexity of the model of Glenn Beck head actually ends up using *more* data than just transmitting the raw pixels.
In addition, there is the enormous problem of recognizing features in a given scene that are amenable to modeling. In the general case, I don’t think there are enough CPUs in the world to look at a scene in a movie and say “aha, a coffee table, I’ll model that. Aha, a magic pony, I’ll model that. Aha, Glenn Beck, I’ll model that.” It’s just inconceivable.
This is why ED had to start off with a limited promise - maybe we’ll just do talking heads in teleconferencing. But even then, to actually get decent compression, you have to simplify reality (in this case, a human head) to get something that is compressible. As a result, your model loses all those nice natural touches - the movement of the fuzz on a balding scalp, the twitches in the wrinkles around the eyes - and you end up with something that looks like a Clutch Cargo cartoon.
These enormous difficulties are the reason nobody out there is talking much about feature based modeling in MPEG-4 streams, even though the standard allows for it. If we do see implementations of it, it will be for things like virtual worlds, where Shrek can be digitally modeled. But messy real world objects? If it is done, it will not be good.
And if it is good, it will not be done.
If I were in ED’s shoes right now, I think I would be furiously trying to create an MPEG-4 encoder that just did a better job of motion estimation, looking forward and backwards for more frames, and work on things like tweaking which portions of a scene can be compressed more than others. Maybe I could then get a codec that took a lot longer to run, but delivered 20% improvement over other codecs. I’d release that and say “Voila! Secret sauce. And this is just the beginning, much better ratios soon!”
Then I’d try to sell it quickly.
Good luck with that.
Sachin, do you know of anyone that is doing general-purpose feature-based modeling for video compression?
- Mark
December 1st, 2009 at 8:57 pm
“not enough CPU’s”? It IS a
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:25 am
Alan, please stop talking about this until you have working code. Nobody has shown any interest in paying you for your grand “idea”, and nobody ever will unless you put it into practice and actually show results.
If you’re not up to the coding I’m sure you can find a partner or pay a contractor.
- Mark
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:41 am
An interesting point about Alan, he claims to have this great compression scheme but he can’t test it because he does not have a computer nor can he afford one, yet he posts messages here.
How is he posting if he has no access to a computer?
Alan, you claims are that of a scam artist just like ED’s.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
And with that said, has anyone heard what the next promise of completion is form ED? Let me guess, Christmas Eve? That way everyone will be happy thru December thinking about the big Christmas Present they are going to receive.
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
All these ideas are scams.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:50 am
Bob Cringely wrote a great piece on one of the biggest unrecognized dangers in startup investments, required reading for people following this thread:
http://www.cringely.com/2009/12/three-simple-rules-for-stealing-my-money/
Money quote:
I wonder what percentage of the indirect investors in Euclid pass the sniff test for being “qualified?”
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:58 am
I boutht thru an LLC and never signed any forms. I also took money out of my 401K.
December 3rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
If anyone threw in money they couldn’t afford to lose, they’re idiots! I don’t think anyone forced them to get in and ALL of these types of investments are ultra risky. Like Cringely said, 95% fail.
Not sure of the ED outcome, but their doors are still open after 10 years. They’ve filed a bunch of patents and actually have a “working” product. As to how well it works is still up for grabs and how the market will value their technology is as well.
They are talking about “ground breaking” technology and if it indeed breaks new ground, the nay-sayers will be similar to the folks who were convinced, no matter what anybody said, that the “world was flat” when in fact, Aristotle proved differently. If one is stuck thinking in old and maybe now, “dated” compression conventions, it’s only logical to doubt their claims and ultimate outcome, isn’t it? I’m hoping that those who say that ED is close to wrapping things up are right because it’ll be interesting to see who was right and who was wrong after all these years.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Your right when you say anyone who put money in ED that couldn’t afford it was an idiot. I’m ashamed to admit that I was an idiot because I believed those people when they made their promises that Euclid would be going to the bank and sold in just weeks. I believed them when they told me about the lady with ED that would sell it. I was and Idiot for believing a bunch of cons several years ago.
Yes their doors are open after 10 years but it has been because of lots and lots of idiots just like me. We keep hearing ground breaking technology that will be done any day. Just because they have some patents doesn’t mean they really have technology because if you recall none of us have seen it.
I say let the investigation begin!
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 pm
How did you vote?
Sale now, as is…or wait a while longer?
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Think you mean “Sell” now 202…
And for the record, it may as well be “Sail” now, because that is what has happened to all your investments.
Oh well, (sale, sell, sail) time to face reality folks. It’s all money down the drain.
Wonder if a 60 minutes type television show, or another investigative media outlet would be interested in this story?
December 4th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Burnt, just because it’s taking longer than they stated or projected does not mean there is a scam here? Have you talked to the principles about your frustration? It’s my understanding that they will talk to all “registered” investors? If you’re in an LLC, you’re going to have to rely on the head.
Anyway, I’ve been a part of and have seen MANY high risk start ups take longer then projected and change direction during development, it’s the “nature of the beast”. That does not necessarily mean you have been scammed.
At this point, what will an investigation prove? If it is a scam, you’ve lost your money. If it’s NOT a scam and nothing ever comes of them, you’ve lost your investment. What’s the difference?
One last point, if you threw your money down because they said they’d be done and sold within a few weeks, that doesn’t make sense? Like the old adage, “if it seems to good to be true, it probably is”. It seems that with recent reports, they’ve painted themselves into a corner. If they don’t complete this very soon, they’ll have no place to “run”.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:50 am
@Also Burnt Out:
>I bought thru an LLC and never signed any
>forms. I also took money out of my 401K.
I wish there was an expert on securities law and regulation around here. I’m still convinced that hiding investors behind the LLCs can’t be a risk-free strategy for Euclid - surely the regulatory agencies have thought of this before.
You might want to talk to a lawyer. If you never signed any forms, you never gave away any of your rights to seek redress, so who knows, you could sue the LLC as well as the person who sold you the shares. This is of course, not legal advice, as I have no training or knowledge and am not a lawyer.
- Mark
December 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Looking In Says:
December 4th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Burnt, just because it’s taking longer than they stated or projected does not mean there is a scam here? Have you talked to the principles about your frustration? It’s my understanding that they will talk to all “registered” investors? If you’re in an LLC, you’re going to have to rely on the head.
Anyway, I’ve been a part of and have seen MANY high risk start ups take longer then projected and change direction during development, it’s the “nature of the beast”. That does not necessarily mean you have been scammed.
At this point, what will an investigation prove? If it is a scam, you’ve lost your money. If it’s NOT a scam and nothing ever comes of them, you’ve lost your investment. What’s the difference?
One last point, if you threw your money down because they said they’d be done and sold within a few weeks, that doesn’t make sense? Like the old adage, “if it seems to good to be true, it probably is”. It seems that with recent reports, they’ve painted themselves into a corner. If they don’t complete this very soon, they’ll have no place to “run”.
I tell you what it will do….. It will help more people from getting scamed!
December 4th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Burnt, I gotta ask you and all the other “anti-Euclid folks, How do you know you’ve been scammed and the company is BSing you about the tech? While all that is certainly possible, nobody has proof. Additionally, I would think that their “house of cards” would’ve already started to crumble. I think some of their most recent investors are pretty tech savvy, but then again, I’m not sure?
My gut tells me most of the investors and LLC participants were not tech savvy nor in a financial position to throw money at a high risk venture, forget about it, and hope it hits someday. That’s the true definition of an “angel”. Emotions, perception, and rumors are certainly driving the “unfounded” conclusions out there? I’ve been following this for a while and nobody has sound facts to back any of the statements and conclusions being made. “It can’t be done”, “Madoff-like ponzi scheme”, and “They’re screwing the investors”, are positions and claims that just can’t be validated, AT THIS TIME. They are ignorant and emotional comments!
Like I’ve said, ED has backed themselves into a corner relative to recent information and claims being put out there. I would suggest that you let it play out for a little while longer before making a move. It shouldn’t be long now?
December 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Over the last four or five years Euclid Discoveries has consistently failed to deliver on anything they’ve ever talked about, publicly or privately. There is no indication that this is changing.
People who dump their money into a loser often remain cheerleaders right up to the end (& the end is near folks)
Consider this from December 2005…”Euclid is hopefully getting ready to be sold”
and this, one of those silly text messages that mean nothing yet everyone forwards to each other (from March 2006)…”Talked to R this evening, Big press release is coming at some point in the next couple of weeks. All good things come to those who wait”
Investors do have options. They can file complaint with SEC, contact atty general, check with better business bureau, or even file a class action. That’s what investors can do if they feel so compelled.
Massachusetts attorney general 617-727-2200
Kentucky attorney general 502-696-5300
Securities Exchange Commission 800-SEC-6585, or one can report a potential violation of the securities laws directly to enforcement@sec.gov
Finally, a Euclid Angel said three & a half years ago…”I’m waiting patiently and so should you! It’ll all be over sooner than later, successful or not! Hopefully, the angels, founders, developers, and others associated with this will have the last laugh.”
Wonder if they are laughing now?
December 5th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Everyone has computer access via public computers.
My discovery is not a scam. I cannot afford to convert it into a product for sale yet, but license to use what I found, is for sale now.
The risks are up-front: disclosure of the idea, for purpose of evaluating it with view to possible purchase of license-to-use, or to consider other investment possibilities, can follow signing of non-disclosure agreement by reliable interested parties.
A related discovery is being written up currently, for disclosure to a scientist; this disclosure will include the data-compression idea as it is so closely related.
As far as I can see at present, the idea is valid.
There is a possibility there are things about computers and/or computer-programming that I do not know, that may
affect viability of the idea. There is also the possibility I have made a mistake somewhere.
However, I think I have got the technology of “extreme data compression” and “extreme video data compression” substantially solved in terms of a process.
This discovery may lead to a revolution in physics, astronomy, and cosmology, to mention three related areas. It may solve the question of “dark matter”, and “dark energy”, sheds new light on Einstein Relativity, involves a “singularity”, and opens doors on areas of science formerly in the realm of science fiction.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:01 am
I’ve got an idea! If you’re not satisfied with the current situation, why don’t you pick up the phone and call one of the principles? Ask questions. Demand answers. Go visit the company in Concord. Insist on a demo.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hey Looking In, That’s a great idea.
(when you said, “Go visit the company in Concord”)
Heck, they may even invite some of you investors up there.
But, let me type again, for all those hopefuls out there…
Over the last four or five years Euclid Discoveries has consistently *FAILED* to deliver on *ANYTHING* they’ve ever talked about, publicly or privately. There is *NO* indication that this will change.
Consider this from December 2005…”Euclid is hopefully getting ready to be sold”…the key word *FOUR* years ago was…HOPEFULLY
then this, a stupid *TEXT* messages that mean absolutely nothing (from March 2006)…”Talked to R this evening, Big press release is coming at some point in the next couple of weeks. All good things come to those who wait”
and guess what….*STILL WAITING*
Investors do have options. They can file complaint with SEC, contact atty general, check with better business bureau, or even file a class action. That’s what investors can do if they feel so compelled.
Massachusetts attorney general 617-727-2200
Kentucky attorney general 502-696-5300
Securities Exchange Commission 800-SEC-6585, or one can report a potential violation of the securities laws directly to enforcement@sec.gov
Three & a half years ago, an investor said…”I’m waiting patiently and so should you! It’ll all be over sooner than later, successful or not! Hopefully, the angels, founders, developers, and others associated with this will have the last laugh.”
I think we all know who is laughing now & it is not the ED investors.
Looking In, you said, “I would suggest that you let it play out for a little while longer before making a move.”
Yeah. Good plan. Just keep on waiting…
& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…
& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…
& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…
& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…& waiting…
THEN, when you get tired of waiting….wait some more.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Newark New Jersey I admire your coments and I’m with you 100%. I’m also getting tired of people saying call the principals of the company. Why? just so that can pump us full of s__ like they have for so long and get us to be quiot for a little while so they can go raise more money to pay themselves a big sallery. The principals should have every share holders name and how much stock they have if they have kept records. Notice I say IF! They should contact the investors and there shold be a share holder meeting. If this company was worth so much when we started investing then it should be worth something now. Sell it and let us all move on with our lives. If they don’t want to do that then lets all help get an investgation started.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:54 am
CA BOY, YOU AINT GOT NO STOCK.
GOT NO STOCK, NO SHARES, NO NOTHING.
OH, BUT YOU MAY HAVE A ‘UNIT’…OR, IF YOU ARE REALLY UNLUCKY, ‘UNITS’
CAN YOU GUESS WHAT A UNIT IS WORTH ???
December 7th, 2009 at 6:56 am
Call the principals, that is a joke. What good is it to call them? They will say anything. For the last 5 years they have told people that they will absolutely be done before the end of the year. Their latest mouthpiece has been saying we will be done by the end of the month for the past 18 months. Since the time they told us they were ready to sell, they have raised and spent another 12 million. All is quiet again, until they need more money.
December 7th, 2009 at 8:23 am
[...] My Very Bad Euclid Discoveries Experience[...]
December 7th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
The Fat Lady has sung folks.
Na, na,
Na, na, na, na
Hey, hey, hey……………kiss your money goodbye.
Anybody want to buy my units?
Ready to sell for less than half price.
ANYBODY?????????????????????????????????????
December 8th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
AC GIRL,
I know it is called units. Forgive me please. It doesn’t make a shit what I called it. I’m sure if anyone is interested in what I have to say that they knew what I meant. The fact remains that the Principals should know every UNIT holders name. They have told us that when the sale is complete that the money will go directly to the unit holder and not the LLC.
I don’t know if some of you are blowing smoke about an investigation or not but I’m serious. I like the post about 60 minutes. A big news network can get more attention then contacting the SEC. They would contact everyone involved for comments right down to the person who is suppose to handle the sale and then they would contact the SEC for us when they are ready to air the story.
December 9th, 2009 at 6:37 am
CA, members within an LLC ARE NOT unit holders, the LLC holds the units. Furthermore, members of the LLC HAVE NO RIGHTS related to the company, only the head of the LLC does. It seems like most of the complaints are from LLC members and not true unit holders. If members want updates about the company, they need to talk to the person who sold them their interest.
When it is sold, monies will be distributed to registered unit holders and that is not LLC members.
December 9th, 2009 at 7:23 am
Actually, the questions about the LLC could prove very interesting. If the LLC purchases shares in ED, it isn’t the head of the LLC that has rights, it is the LLC itself.
The LLC makes decisions about whether to buy, sell, whatever, based on the decision-making process set up in its articles of incorporation. Usually for major decisions this is going to be done by a board of directors elected by the shareholders.
Here’s where it gets fun. Let’s say I set up an LLC, then go around and get my friends and family to cough up money so I had enough cash to invest in Euclid.
If I was an honest businessman, and I collected 10 investments of $10,000 each, I would then issue each of those investors one share of stock in my LLC, and they would be a one-tenth owner. Presumably they would then be able to vote on things like the members of the board.
But what if I wasn’t so honest? I could just put that money down on the books as, say, a loan to the company, with no voting rights and no meaningful protection. If my ship comes in, I can pay them back. If I feel like it. But I get to decide what share they get. It’s win-win for me.
I think it might be interesting to find out where the LLCs are incorporated, read their articles of incorporation, and find out who is listed as shareholders in the company. If it turns out that people who think there are investors in Euclid are not even shareholders in the LLCs, that would be doubly sad. They could be lose their money if ED goes bust, but lose it even if ED wins.
- Mark
December 9th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Looking in says: It seems like most of the complaints are from LLC members and not true unit holders.
THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT, THERE ARE JUST AS MANY UNIT HOLDERS THAT ARE TOTALLY FED UP AND PISSED OFF.
So if you are just “looking in”, how would you know who the complainers are? They would love to have people believe that lie. So because I can talk to the principles and they tell me the same story, of wild promises, missed deadlines, changed goals, untold riches, multiple codec’s, bogus countdowns, outright lies etc, etc, etc, I should not be complaining after 10 years? I would say you are not just “looking in” but a newbie who hasn’t been in this long enough to know his ass from a hole in the ground or a shill for the company. Which are you? Your comment about calling the principles or visiting Concord pretty much says it all. Even the LLC’s who sold units are tired of hearing the same old stories. You can only tell your LLC members two more weeks for so long before you start sounding like the company. If you have been in this as long as most of us, you don’t know how clearly out of touch you sound. So pretending you are just looking in, doesn’t cut it any longer.
December 9th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Good point Mark! In regard to 60 Minutes looking into this, I can’t see it? ED is small potatoes. Like I’ve said before, just hold on until sometime in January. They have pretty much put a stake in the ground as far as what they’re telling their investors so there’ll no place to run. If it doesn’t happen, the investors will go nuts. I think? Raising more money will be out of the question. I know people who will track their money raising efforts and show up to inform/update the prospects.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Well, has anyone heard next completion date for the project? When is it going to sell?
……….one word for you all…………..SUCKERS!
December 12th, 2009 at 6:16 am
“TWO WEEKS” LMAO
December 12th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Yeah.
Just a couple of weeks away from completion.
We are all gonna be RICH !!!!
(suckers)
December 15th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
To Looking In,
I think you are probably one of the Euclid people or one of the investors who still believes that any day Euclid is going to bring the big bucks.
You say that you can’t see 60 minutes looking into Euclid and how it has raised money because ED is small potatoes and you’ve said before, just hold on until sometime in January. They have pretty much put a stake in the ground as far as what they’re telling their investors so there’ll no place to run. If it doesn’t happen, the investors will go nuts.
I think that investors have every right to be nuts after ten years of promises. I must be crazy because I can see how a big news network would be interested in doing a story on Euclid because there is more to the story then just a small company. What is the story? It’s about how a lot of people were stupid and invested their money into something that sounded too good to be true. It would be a story about a small company that raised Millions of dollars from people who took money from retirement accounts and borrowed money to invest in something that was going to make them rich. Also the story can talk about how many investors invested thru LLC companies and has no rights to know any information or no voting rights in a company that their money went into. It can be a story about how the poor investor is barely surviving but the people that received his/her investment receives an executive salary.
As for that stake in the ground, how many times has that stake been put there? Why should anyone beleive after 10 years that a stake in the ground means anything?
I’m trying to be patient but after all this time it is hard to do. However, I’m going to be patient until February and if something isn’t done by then I will personally begin contacting news networks and ask them to look into ED and see if there is a story. I have seen lots of news stories that were done on smaller topics.
For now I’m putting the whole thing out of my head as I have done in the past but if my heart is broke at Valentines Day 2010 as my pockets are now then I will contact everyone that will listen and tell my story to anyone who wants to hear it. My story could help other inexperienced investors be more aware of what and how they invest their money. I know I want have to tell my story to anyone because the stake is in the ground for January but I’m working on my notes!
December 15th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
I stand behind all of my comments since December 3rd!
Angel Investing = RISKY = No Promises = Having the stomach for set backs and delays = Financial wherewithall to withstand losing your investment = Not a sure thing regardless of what they tell you. If these are not characteristics of ED Angels, they are pretenders and I’m not sure they should be playing?
Is Euclid responsible for the members of an LLC? I don’t think the company even has records of LLC members?
Nobody has lost a dime until the technology is deemed worthless or they close their doors. Delays? Yes! Shitty communicators? Sounds like it! Crooks? Doubt it!
December 16th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Does anyone know if the team is still in Concord? This is the third time in three years we were told the team was going to Concord and would stay until they are done. As everyone is aware we were told they would be done by Thanksgiving. What is the new completion date? I should have said what is the new completion date they are telling people? Actually over the past 10 years they have made hundreds of promises and have not lived up to one. Can’t see that changing unless the money flow is cut off. They still selling units? Anyone know how many units they have sold? 10 years and counting.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am
“AM” Are you a real angel? Or, are you a member of an LLC? If you’re an Angel, call them! If you’re part of an LLC, call your President and have them call on your behalf.
Why rely on bloggers who you don’t know and you don’t know their motivations for commenting? Based on the posts here, the posters may or may NOT be associated with ED and it seems like the outsiders may just want to “stir the pot”?
December 18th, 2009 at 3:13 am
Nice meeting you all
December 21st, 2009 at 9:39 pm
any new deadlines, or is everything just….dead ?
December 22nd, 2009 at 4:50 pm
For anyone who likes very obscure hints: “dragonball Z”…. (re-discovered something incredible this morning, after writing a string of zeroes and ones…)
December 27th, 2009 at 6:34 am
HOT OFF THE PRESS:
New deadline just announced:
everything will be wrapped up & sold on…
the 12th.
the 12th of Never that is.
January 4th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
OH PLEEEASSE….. I’ve been following all of your comments for some time now. Is this all you have to do? Do you actually have lives? Some of you sound technosmart…some investmentsmart..some sound chickens–t! Yes, I called you a chickenshit. Those who have reason to discuss and be positive or pissed whichever the case may be ARE THOSE WHO TOOK THE PLUNGE OR THE BAIT (WHICHEVER VIEW YOU WANT). I agree that Granny doesn’t need to spend $$$$ that she needs to live. However, there are those who can put the cash in and wait….the word is patiently for it to hit. If it does GREAT…If it doesn’t, ok I lost some money. If there weren’t people who decided to risk their money, where would all of you be…not sitting at your computer, maybe not still using pony express, but not using your ipod, smartphones etc. Should someone take down ED on Granny’s behalf? If needed, YOU BET! But, dont rip into those who have the cash to invest and aren’t concerned at the pace in which ED moves.
January 5th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Blue, it’s all great risking one’s investment to sustain new and daring projects.
But ED is visibly a fraud that isn’t going anywhere. Morally, it’s at the very least disturbing to think of these people profiting from the naivety of others. Around here, there are some software programmers who have worked with data or video compression abundantly and can smell the fraud just by looking at the website ( besides the years passing by, I won’t get into the details of how their claims don’t add up ).
January 5th, 2010 at 8:00 am
“Take down ED”? On what grounds? Because they’re taking too long? ALL unit holders signed a subscription agreement which REQUIRED (and the unit holder HAD TO SIGN), a certain net worth requirement. This requirement has the purpose of “weeding out” people who can not afford to lose their life savings on a risky venture. Like Blue said, many angels can afford to lose everything and don’t care about the time line. There are also LLCs who have units. Based on the chatter here, there are probably LLC members who probably could not afford to be in a venture like this, who took the plunge AND THE RISK! Now because they’re strapped for the cash, the company has screwed them?
Maloeran, “visibly a fraud”? Love to hear the “facts” related to your opinion.
January 5th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Jimmy, I’m sorry if I won’t get into a detailed argumentation, I think that would end up very time consuming ( mostly, I don’t care about ED enough ).
I would still recommend to consider the opinion of experts on the field of compression ; of Mark Nelson if no one else, he explained his position abundantly.
Above all, their compression claims of an improvement of 460% over mpeg4 are practically impossible ( and their only public explanation for the gain is basically “object recognition” ).
I’ll briefly add that their patents are devoid of any real substance, when they make sense at all ( for those who didn’t know, one can really patent anything, even non-sense ).
Or, if you can’t trust the opinion of people who know what they are talking about, just wait a few more years or decades for ED’s money to run out. And you’ll also see ED as the fraud it is.
January 5th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
I feel that someone should get some media involved to decide weather it is a scam or not. As far a subscription agreement, LLC members didn’t know about such agreement nor have they sighned anything. Grandma was made beleive that she could leave the kids lots of money with her investment and now the kids don’t have enough to take care of her. Sounds like a news story!
January 6th, 2010 at 6:53 am
Seems to me Grandma’s beef should be with the LLC head? Doesn’t seem like Grandma was coaxed into investing by anyone within the company, just another investor who put the LLC together?
January 6th, 2010 at 7:43 am
Going to the Media with this…that would be interesting. If its a scam why hasn’t someone already taken it to the media or the media picked up on it? In fact, why not one of you that’s so fired up and yelling SCAM! SCAM! SCAM! do just that…hmmm good story maybe you could make some $$$ off of it. For me the jury is still out. I do know of an investor (and this is the TRUTH) that’s made his millions with this very same way, same kind of deal, similar company and yes he had to sit on the darn thing for a long time. He says this is the real deal and he stands to lose a whole heck of a lot more than our so called Granny with her pension.(No disrespect to Granny) I do like the idea of seeing what the media would make of it. It would put the pressure on ED, put up,or shut up with everyone watching it on the news. Get your ducks in a row and go for it.
January 6th, 2010 at 7:55 am
By the way, Maloeran, practically impossible? Light bulbs, telephones, flight?????????? I’m sure you know much more about the technology than I do, however, in this day and age and the future, impossible is very limiting.
January 6th, 2010 at 8:15 am
Blue, a 460% improvement of the compression rate would perhaps be possible if they had a radically new and different approach to video encoding.
Unfortunately, they state clearly that their codec is “mpeg4-based” and all of their improvement comes from “object recognition”. Trouble is, mpeg4 encoding already incorporates adaptive encoding for motion, dynamism and details. Whatever little improvement they could possibly get by “recognizing objects” won’t get anywhere near 460%.
Let’s have a look at the patents then. If they have some intellectual property to protect, then there should be something of value there, right?
Unfortunately, the patents are all about various small variations to mpeg4 encoding ( discarding any remaining hope of a radically new and different approach ), with a very high content of technobbable without substance.
January 6th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Please also note you will not find one single person who has written compression software who also believes thier claims.
Not one.
Yet, if you go over to the UseNet Group comp.compression and look through the archives you will find that not one single compression standard in use today has taken more than a year to get a working proto-type out for testing/demos.
And yes - I mean all of them. Proto-types usually take a few weeks to a few months to develop. Refining the details take long, but proving the theory works takes no time at-all compared to Euclid drag out and suck up the money time-line.
Yet, these people (Euclid) have been working on thier compression software for years, spending the investors’ money and still have nothing (not even a basic proto-type) to show that they have made any progress.
A scam it is.
January 6th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
OK, If all this is true and ED is a scam, take it to the media and have them breathing down ED’s neck, at least for the sake of all the Grandma’s losing money.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
@Blue:
Taking it to the media or the law is probably going to go nowhere. Neither will be too interested without clear evidence of fraud or criminal intent. Do you know of any evidence? I don’t.
If there is some sort of criminal conspiracy afoot, it would take some pretty good investigation to get to the bottom of it. The DOJ or the press aren’t going to invest that kind of effort for a deal this small. Ramp it up to $1B and they’ll start sniffing.
I still believe it is possible that there are SEC violations in the way the investments have been set up, but even if that is true, ED may sill have clean hands, who knows? The bad guys in this case might be the LLC organizers. Any way to prove that ED colluded with the LLCs to shield themselves from oversight? None that I know of.
One thing is sure, Euclid Discoveries has developed a formula for keeping a few people in high-salary jobs with no deliverables for an extended period of time. It has worked out well for a few people, and perhaps they have decided to see if they can pull it off again.
Good deal if you can still sleep at night.
- Mark
January 7th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
“Good deal if you can still sleep at night.”
Amen.
But ol’ Bernie Madoff slept pretty good for several, several years.
My biggest problems with ED is a guy like (oh, let’s make up a name here) Richard or Robert, telling investors, “We are almost there. We are sooo close. We are at 98% complete. We are just about ready to sell this thing & take it to the bank.” (You know, to a company like google, microsoft or some outfit out of china expressing interest)
That’s what bugs the crap outta me. Yeah, I know about long term deals & waiting patiently, BUT, when the big dogs are telling the little doges that this “IS going to happen” next month, (then the next, then the next) it just gets a little old after a while.
And I do believe they have all their bases covered, & while an investigation would be interesting, I believe they are untouchable.
So, all you backwoods Tennessee boys & girls just chalk this up as a lesson learned in life & remember there are some folks that said they didn’t believe in the product from the beginning.
“Good deal if you can still sleep at night.” INDEED.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
So, lets makes some names like Richard or Robert. They may have their bases covered but if they have lied to investors then things can happen worse then media or police investigations! Who knows what the backwoods KY boys & girls are cabeable of.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
feel free to delete this (my) comment (if you like);
Maloeran writes:
“Blue, a 460% improvement of the compression rate would perhaps be possible if they had a radically new and different approach to video encoding.”
Reply: Someone may have this, even if ED is struggling. I have something that may be a revolution! It includes (what could be) sensational breakthroughs in physics and a curious mathematical apparent discovery!
460% is minimal to my apparent method, is my instinct (try 4,000,000%?)
Maloeran writes:
“Unfortunately, they state clearly that their codec is “mpeg4-based” and all of their improvement comes from “object recognition”.”
Reply: “object recognition”, that’s sounds desireable. My system is logic-based, has only been worked out for zeroes and ones so far regarding offcial computer languages.
M writes: “Trouble is, mpeg4 encoding already incorporates adaptive encoding for motion, dynamism and details. Whatever little improvement they could possibly get by “recognizing objects” won’t get anywhere near 460%.”
Reply: Unless they are running at a higher dimension…???
M writes: “Let’s have a look at the patents then. If they have some intellectual property to protect, then there should be something of value there, right?
Unfortunately, the patents are all about various small variations to mpeg4 encoding ( discarding any remaining hope of a radically new and different approach ), with a very high content of technobbable without substance.”
Reply: Maybe their main idea is not published in patents?
If you want a possible computer technology revolution, that I have analysed from many different paths, it’s arrived (apparently).
January 7th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Too good not to repeat
“Good deal if you can still sleep at night.”
Amen.
But ol’ Bernie Madoff slept pretty good for several, several years.
My biggest problems with ED is a guy like (oh, let’s make up a name here) Richard or Robert, telling investors, “We are almost there. We are sooo close. We are at 98% complete. We are just about ready to sell this thing & take it to the bank.” (You know, to a company like google, microsoft or some outfit out of china expressing interest)
That’s what bugs the crap outta me. Yeah, I know about long term deals & waiting patiently, BUT, when the big dogs are telling the little doges that this “IS going to happen” next month, (then the next, then the next) it just gets a little old after a while.
And I do believe they have all their bases covered, & while an investigation would be interesting, I believe they are untouchable.
So, all you backwood Tennessee AND Kentucky boys & girls just chalk this up as a lesson learned in life & remember there are some folks that said they didn’t believe in the product from the beginning.
“Good deal if you can still sleep at night.” INDEED.
January 8th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
AHHHHH Thank you Mark Nelson. I agree.
January 9th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
hmmm
just re-worked out my system, found some interesting things;
related to vision; plus a math-related version that e.g. if have about 4 million characters, looks like may store in space of somewhat less than 20 characters; though much larger amounts of data require not a lot more it appears
January 9th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
NEW DEADLINE:
Project gonna be wrapped up, sold,taken to the bank on…
JANUARY 15th
hold on…this just in………deadline moved back until some time in February.
January 9th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Someone talked to the Euclid CEO. They are making an apt sometime in June with the Bank. Till then they are going to keep working. I suspect they will need to raise some more cash as they prepare to wind things up. MY understanding is that units will cost much more on the next round.
January 10th, 2010 at 11:22 am
@Joseph:
When you say “making an apt … with the Bank”, what exactly does that mean? For most startups, I would suppose that this means they are going to start meeting with investment banking firms in order to prepare an IPO. But Euclid Discoveries is certainly in no position to do an IPO. So what’s this latest story all about?
I don’t really see why they would need to increase the price of the units - if anything, the burn rate of the company has gone down. It seems like the head count at ED has gone way down, and the only real expenses now are management salaries. Just another conventional round of financing should be good to keep them going for another few years, no problem.
And ED has certainly proven to have a knack for fundraising. Time to whip up some enthusiasm from those LLCs!
- Mark
January 10th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Pathetic. Really pathetic to get the hopes up of the poor dupes who think there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
“Someone talked to the Euclid CEO”
That’s cute. It’s always “someone” isn’t it.
Oh, & that ever elusive CEO.
I’ve got some friends in Kentucky, and their patience has ran out.
Past time to put up or shut up. Another round of fund-raising to keep them in their lifestyle to which they are accustomed.
What do they (ED) have to show for all their efforts the past few years?
NOTHING.
NOTHING.
NOTHING.
GREAT deal if they can sleep at night.”
January 10th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
throw-away line:
“honey I shrunk the kids”
if you know how this technology works, you know why this phrase was said
it’s a …………………………………
January 10th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
@Mark Nelson
Ok, if it is a scam and no hard evidence….what now? What can we expect ED to do now? Wake up one morning and find that ED has closed shop and tiptoed away in the night? Or a formal announcement….hey Granny, we took your money and others too, sorry, but we lied? What happens now? Since ED continues to promise and promise and has for years, now, how does ED end it since they have recently started telling that its gone to the bank, Jan. 15 is the day….what do you think ED will do?
January 11th, 2010 at 6:28 am
From what I know, NONE of these posts regarding timeframes, etc are true! Registered investors should know this and LLC members should talk to the leaders. The current posters are just stirring everything up.
January 11th, 2010 at 6:50 am
@ jimmy
of course nothing about “the timeframes” are true, because there is NOTHING true about anything concerning or related to ED. Oh, except that it is a scam.
been a scam for how many years now?
‘nother round of fund-raising coming up. they are sooo close. Hee, Hee, Ha, Ha…
January 11th, 2010 at 6:52 am
@Blue:
What does ED do now?
From their point of view, I don’t see any reason for them to change anything. They show an uncanny ability to continue finding investors, and as long as that is the case, management can continue to draw nice salaries and from time to time tantalize the investors.
One of the nice things about public companies is that they have to disclose compensation for key company officials. By using their LLC strategy, ED avoids the automatic switch to public status that would greet them after they have a certain number of investors.
That’s probably a good thing, because I have a feeling that when the investors saw what kind of salary the managers of this “startup” are drawing, they might be kind of fired up.
Frequently, key founders of a startup work for nothing but stock, knowing that cash flow is a plague that often kills young companies. So it would be kind of shocking to me to find out that the CEO of ED was pulling down a salary in the low-to-mid-6 figures.
Of course, angels or other investors in a startup will always be privy to the compensation plan, even if the public is not. But the poor LLC investors in ED don’t get that info. Perhaps they should ask? After all, aren’t they company owners?
- Mark
January 11th, 2010 at 11:19 am
@ everybody…
i’m through with this post.
thought we might hear something serious from anyone that may know anything, but obviously, that’s not going to be the case.
so, i’m talking to you eastern tenneessee & kentucky.
you money is gone. long gone.
you now have two choices.
1-invest more to lose & never see again.
2-let it go, realize you’ve been had, live happily
ever after.
but PLEASE stop telling my son & his soon-to-be-wife that they are about to be rich from the $20,000-plus he gave you nearly two years ago…
January 11th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Thank you, Mark . I’ve probably learned more from you than anyone, and Maloeran for technical info. I was fed up with criticism of the investors. They are being talked about like they are stupid idiots sometimes by those that I would bet never invested a dime…ever(thats who I said were chickens—t). Investors (the ones I know personally) rely on the word of those that have helped them make big $$$ in the past. Let’s face it, ED’s marketing, sales pitch and materials are as slick as they come. We are not talking about, as someone called them, those in KY and TN “backwoods”. No, not everyone is familiar with the technology as many of you seem to be, in fact, I would say few. We are talking about highly educated and generally careful with their money and where they put it. For some, it’s not their first rodeo. They understand there is always a risk and they are not WHINING OR SITTING AROUND WAITING AND THINKING THEY’RE GOING TO BE RICH. If IT HITS OK, IF NOT, OUT SOME $$$. They’ve not risked enough to hurt them but I’m sure some have. Let’s not kick them when they’re down.And Window,if you are still there…sorry about your son’s $$$.
January 11th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
I can’t understand why “investors” come here to get information? CALL THE COMPANY! CALL YOU LLC HEAD! With respect to this concept, there really are some idiots out there! You’re going to believe someone here?
It seems a lot of folks take joy in belittling investors and the company. Which, I think is still in business, isn’t it? Based on that, has anyone really lost money yet? Like Looking In and others have said, where’s this scam?
January 11th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Good points, Blue, it’s certainly a very small percentage of the population who can really grasp the technical aspects. I guess my main criticism of the investors is that, before handing over any money, I think they should have sought advice from technical people competent in this particular field…
… and that they should probably listen to the technical people now, as disheartening as it must be to have been abused in this manner.
Jimmy, the company might still be in business, but they have no product. Hence, I believe that money is definitely lost.
January 12th, 2010 at 6:36 am
Maloeran, no product? Are you an investor or is this an assumption?
January 12th, 2010 at 7:43 am
The real question Jimmy is: Are you? Have you seen a product? You will have to be the only one. The 10 years I have been an investor, attended all the meetings and information gatherings, I have never seen a product. Seen a couple of videos on a lap top. Seen a few Power Points and some newletters that say nothing of substance. At least nothing you would expect after 10 years.
Call the company or the LLC leaders? They have been promising an end to this thing every single year since they were incorporated in 1999. That’s a joke.
The latest is an end on Jan 25 with a call to the bank for Feb 15. Don’t count on it. If they have a meeting with the bank it will be order checks to continue the salaries or opening a safety deposit box to stash the cash. Something always comes up. 10 years is not a statistical error it is a pattern.
January 12th, 2010 at 11:52 am
It’s hard to imagine anyone who needs a better video codec than Google. Since they bought YouTube, their bandwidth costs have been huge. Credit Suisse announced that Google spent $360M in 2009 on bandwidth. I’ve seen estimates that 10% of all internet traffic originates from YouTube.
In other words, if ED had something to sell, Google would be buying. If they spent a billion dollars on technology that reduced their bandwidth costs by 90%, they’d have that money back in just a few years. Plus a huge technical advantage over their competitors.
So why do you suppose Google just upped their offer to On2, a company that makes a codec that doesn’t promise any miracles, just an incremental improvement over existing products? A codec that actually exists and works?
If ED really had something, Google would surely already be up in Concord with the checkbook.
But they’re instead hot and heavy to purchase On2, a company that would be of no use whatsoever if the ED products existed.
I think a reasonable person would conclude from this that ED has not shown Google any technology that Google found interesting.
If you accept that (and I find it hard to refute) the obvious question is: why not?
ED boosters, what do you make of this analysis?
- Mark
January 12th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
My analysis ( I am not an as-such ED-booster, I found a way to apparently “compress video data” that gave a way to explain why a company in this field might call themselves “Euclid Discoveries”) is:
having a breakthrough (or apparent breakthrough) technology does not guaranteed someone in the market will buy it from you.
You oughta try selling such a technology, the amount of flack one gets is astronomical! People say “it cannot be done”, or assume you have money to finish making it, or they just don’t reply, or they accuse you of fraud, or they are skeptical enough to not take you seriously.
It looks like ED could have done better in presenting their case if they have the technology (?), or perhaps they have their own commercial plans they are happy with?
I read that the makers of HDDVD lost to Blue Ray, maybe at cost of hundreds of millions. I wrote to Japan but received no reply (unless it went to spam filter) saying I had found an idea that could maybe allow HDTV- Blue ray equipment to read each other’s formats (a rather loose speculative theory it was at the level I had it, not knowing much technical aspects iof these technologies).
Suppose I had a technology that could save Google a fortune, how (?) do you think they would react even if I could reach them? How would you approach that task, as an inventor? Colonel Sanders reportedly received a thousand “no”s before someone said “yes” to his “Kentucky Fried chicken recipe”.
It isn’t always easy it seems to persuade people to take a claim of new technology possible breakthrough seriously?
January 12th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
From what I understand On2 is a proprietary codec and doesn’t work within existing standards and framework. I believe the plan once Google owns it, it plan is to release it as a free or open source software and see if people can build on it and make it adaptable to present standards. The market desperatley needs what ED promises it has. A codec that works in existing stardards and with much improved compression.
January 12th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
What are the exiasting standards? I would like to make a version of my technology to be compatible
January 13th, 2010 at 7:04 am
@TA:
YouTube was a huge success using Flash video, which employs the On2 video codec. While it is indeed proprietary, to say it does not work within existing frameworks is totally wrong. It works just fine with every single installed browser that uses Flash. That number will have 10 digits - kind of big.
And the market does not desperately need what ED promises. Google needs it, but it’s hard to see anyone else having the economic justification for it.
And again, if ED had something, why would they be sitting on the sidelines while Google purchases On2? All they would have to do is demo the technology and drop some hints about pricing, and there would be no On2 purchase.
But do you think Google is really going to buy On2 for hundreds of millions of dollars, and then two months later say “Hey that was fun, now let’s spend a billion on *another* video codec company?” To say yes would imply that Google is stupid. Most evidence seems to indicate that Google is actually pretty smart.
The logical conclusion is that Google is not interested in ED. The possible reasons why are many, but none of them say much good about the future of Euclid Discoveries.
- Mark
January 13th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
And we already know why Euclid does not appoach Google.
Google will demand testing that meets thier standards, ie tests done with real world data. And Euclid can’t handle that, after-all it’s been more than ten years and they don’t even have a working demo to show investors.
Google is not going to pay for promises, they want working code!
January 13th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Everybody keeps saying that there is no working model. Does anyone know this for a FACT? Just because they have not made it public, don’t make them a fraud or scammers? Has any investors point blank, asked to come to their offices to see “the goods” and been turned down or given some bs answer as to why they couldn’t see the prototype?
I can’t believe after all this time, nobody hasn’t asked this question, especially with the current cost to get in. Maybe not, but how stupid would those peeps be?
In some strange way, I think they have something? I see the most recent dates and am thinking they are ready to “shit or get off the pot” now. If it doesn’t get done this time, investors who don’t trust them should go to MA with a compression expert and demand a show and tell.
Here are possible reasons they will not make the Feb date and this thing continues to go on:
Some critical team member gets sick or has family issues, which would be a bunch of crap based on that Feb is now close and lose ends should not be that many.
The bank can not fit them into their schedule, which would be a bunch of crap based on how much lead time they have.
They get turned back by the bank and told to do more development, which would be a bunch of crap based on what they told the investors.
A glitch in the tech happens leading up to the meeting so that the show & tell can’t happen which would be a bunch of crap in general.
There are probably more “excuses” that could prevent this thing from finishing up but think that they’ll do everything they can to not let this thing get stalled, again.
Time now is short. Everyone will see in a few short weeks. I hope for positives for the many investors out there and really for Granny.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:28 am
You forgot about the power going out. Then worry about someone getting carpal tunnel syndrome. The bank doesn’t work during holidays. We are waiting for SVC. Our banker is away on vacation. TADA the most important one. The DOG ate my homework. I am sure there others we can’t anticipate.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
A VERY interesting couple of posts on another thread (Post #215-”Job Losses……”.) Click on it and look at Richard Gyger’s posts. He was the Technical Lead at Euclid up until a couple of years ago.
It would seem much work has been done since he left and I don’t see why he wouldn’t be telling the truth????? So, who knows?
January 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
@Jimmy Knew:
Richard Gyger didn’t say anything, guy. He said that IF Euclid completed what they are working on it would be revolutionary. The same thing could be said for anyone working on a perpetual motion machine.
“Euclid’s approach to compression is innovative tho I’m not sure it’s achievable.”
I would agree with everything in this sentence except the innovative part.
- Mark
January 18th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
C’mon Mark, quit being such a “Buzz Kill”! What if ‘ol ED did go beyond where Gyger left and have something new? Crap, it’s been over 2 years. Could happen?
Not innovative? It would have to be or why would anyone spend the 10 years and a lot of money just to achieve incremental increases?
January 19th, 2010 at 5:41 am
@Jimmy Knew:
‘Not innovative’ refers to the fact that compression using object-modeling has been kicked around for years and years. Any work ED did to implement it would be evolutionary, not so much innovative. Not that it wouldn’t be a good thing, it’s just not something they thought up. (And they didn’t even start talking about it until after they had been in business five years and had failed to deliver on their original promises.)
Much of this is already in the MPEG-4 standard, and I’m sure extensions in the future will be adopted as they come along - if anyone ever accomplishes anything worthy in this area.
As for “Buzz Kill”, yeah, since all ED has right now is buzz, I can see why you wouldn’t want to kill that. What would be left?
- Mark
January 19th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Being kicked around and actually implementing it are 2 different things. It would only be evolutionary if someone had already implemented it in some form. So I stick by my innovative quote.
BTW, i was only tech lead for a year or so. Euclid existed way before I showed up.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:20 am
@Richard:
Fair enough.
- mark
January 19th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
@ Jimmy
you told Mark to quit being such a “Buzz Kill”!
then you said…”What if ?” blah, blah, blah…
YEAH, WHAT IF A FROG HAD WINGS???
WHAT IF, INDEED!!!
January 19th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Hey Light, that was brilliant!
January 19th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Thanks Jimmy.
Almost as brilliant as ED’s video compression scam.
January 19th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Whooooooohoo….no shortage of catty comments here!
January 19th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Blue, The claws will really come out when they miss the next deadline of calling the bank on Jan 25 for a Feb 15 meeting. I don’t think it is a scam, I am just not sure they can do what they have told everyone they have done.
I was at the meeting in March 08 when Richard said we would absolutely be done in April. I remember people standing up in the back of the meeting and asking him why they should believe him this time. His answer was because “I am telling you it will absolutely be done in April”. He subsequently denied he ever said that. But what I know he wasn’t saying “It will take another two years”. Of course Bob was running around whispering in peoples ears that he absolutely guaranteed that we would have our checks before the end of the year. Surprise he has been saying that every year since they started selling units back in 99. Six days to countdown and four weeks to blast off. You can hardly blame people for being catty. Ten years is a long time to hear the same old story with the same old results.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Red is RIGHT ON.
Put up or Shut up was a long time ago.
So, “Jimmy” who is the Buzz Kill now?
And how many ‘units’ do you own?
January 20th, 2010 at 12:16 am
if only you folks knew what you were saying (re: the frog)
January 20th, 2010 at 8:55 am
@ Alan
Yeah.
IF only…
January 20th, 2010 at 11:23 am
Oh, I’ve been following along…and agree 10 years is a long time. It seems some of the cattiness comes from those who’ve not invested anything but their lip and saying that the investors should have known better. As I’ve said befor (and I don’t mind saying it again, after a number of years everything gets said more than once.)Those who invest have the right to be ticked off and be catty all they want. Frankly, we can say whatever we want…we can wait FOREVER. We can go over it and over it and OVER IT and it will never make a difference. It will NOT MAKE ED COME THROUGH. It does give one a place to vent. And contrary to (262) Jimmy Knew, you can learn a good deal from this website. You do have to pay attention and filter through some of it. By the way, Red,I heard the same deadline,…Jan. 25th for a Feb. 15th meeting. What the H— does that mean? Why wait until Jan 25th to make the call. These are the little things that put big doubts in the minds of those who prefer to reside in the fog of ignorance. I said ignorance, not stupidity. Big difference.
January 20th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
I am not being catty because I don’t want this to happen. I have money invested in this like everyone else.
I just believe that someone has to give another side to the story that we have revolutionary technology in an evolutionary market. That we are all going to be rich, and big companies are lining up to give us big checks.
This whole thing has been veiled in secrecy and threats of retribution for saying anything against the company line. Giving select information to favored investors. I don’t believe that bitching about the management, the company, or repeated missed timelines constitute a breach of the subscription agreement.
I just think before someone plops down a chunk of change they should know that there is another side to the story than guaranteed riches. If after that they decide to invest and they can afford to lose it, have at it. I remember how difficult it was for me, hearing that I was missing out on a chance of a lifetime, from my best friends, my relatives the people I trust. It was like mob hysteria. I am done being catty until they miss the next deadline of Feb 15.
January 20th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Yeah, this is what is humorous to me…comments from ED like…”we are all going to be rich, and big companies are lining up to give us big checks”
Hey, you are “right on” again Red, saying…”I remember how difficult it was for me, hearing that I was missing out on a chance of a lifetime, from my best friends, my relatives the people I trust.”
PEOPLE WE TRUSTED !!!!!!!!!
January 20th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
My Prediction is they will make the appointment with the bank (which none of us will be able to verify weather there is an appointment) they will drag investors along as they always have while making an announcement of how they have more then they ever thought they would. They will start raising money again because they will need more in the bank and they will need to finish one more aspect before the bank will proceed with the sale because they are going to point out just how crucial it will be to get the big money. We have been here before and it will happen again. Wait and see! If there is something it will never be sold unless it is decided that they can’t go further and they do sale it for some money to bring this to an end. If this were to happen I don’t see the investors even getting back what they invested. (I HOPE I CAN EAT THOSE WORDS)
I’m tired of hearing how mad people are because investors are posting on this site. A company as innovative as Euclid should have created a private web site and assigned passwords to the investors. Why wasn’t this done? Because then they couldn’t say that they didn’t make such promises for there would have been a record of the post. Such a site would also allow investors to view important meetings such as meetings with said bank. Some of you have said that investors have every right to be upset after all this time and you are exactly right. Officers, workers and other investors have no right to be mad at investors after they have whispered in people’s ears year after year how they guarantee the company will be sold. The story is also familiar to me about how a friend tells another friend that they can’t let a once in a lifetime deal pass them by. That is sad. It makes me mad that they feel that investors are not allowed to vent their frustration after all the whispers in ears. Would it be so hard for the CEO of the company to acknowledge that his investors have the right to be upset? Has anyone ever heard him make such a comment? Is there anyone out there that can tell me why investors do not have a right to be upset? (NOTHING WOULD MAKE ME HAPPIER THEN TO LOOK BACK ON THIS AND SAY THOSE GUYS KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING) My confidence isn’t there though. May I go further out on a limb and ask if there is anyone that can tell me why I should have confidence?
January 20th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
@Red : Hey, I don’t remember anything catty coming from you. If it did, you have every right to be catty or pissed or whatever. From the people I know, MOST of them invested because of the people they trusted. The fact that they have cloaked the whole thing in silence is causing a lot of the distrust in the product, the company…everything. I still am on the fence hearing what the tech experts say, but hoping they’re wrong, hearing what lawyers and some investment savvy say, and hoping they’re right. Some say the fat lady has already sung…she can’t sing until all the facts are in. Mark has already stated that there is no hard evidence of a scam. So, until there is, fat lady is waiting in the wings with Granny and her lawyer right beside her.
January 20th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Oh yeah, Tom? I heard CEO was pretty well pissed about investors venting on this website. If he is, so be it.
January 20th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
@ Blue…you talk about a lawyer waiting in the wings…it will be a long, long wait because ED’s bases are covered…they are untouchable…read the fine print
@ Tom…you say “May I go further out on a limb and ask if there is anyone that can tell me why I should have confidence?”
no bro, i sure can’t…i can’t thing of one reason why you, or any of the poor saps that have have their money stolen, should have any confidence
& like Mark & Once More said on January 7th, 2010…”Good Deal If You Can Sleep @ Night”
Ten years people…ten years, but it’s all gonna be wrapped up next month. Gee, where have we heard that before???
January 20th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
@Ten Years I didn’t say it would do any good.I just said that she + lawyer would be waiting.
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:05 am
Monday Monday, can’t trust that day,
Monday Monday, sometimes it just turns out that way
Oh Monday morning, you gave me no warning of what was to be.
Oh Monday Monday, how could leave and not take me.
January 24th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Anybody want to place a bet on whether or not the phone call will be made tomorrow for the Feb.15 trip to the bank? Wonder what excuse we’ll hear this time? Sorry — I’m now a 10-year skeptic who hopes I’m wrong!
January 25th, 2010 at 6:31 am
@Hopeful:
It seems strange that ED management talks up this visit to the bank as a key indicator of success. Bankers involved in M&A deals are not particularly difficult to attract, since any deal will result in them taking a huge cut of the eventual transaction, often for very little work. If you have a barn that is packed the ceiling with horse manure, the investment bankers will be swarming the place like flies, all based on their usual thinking “with all this crap there has just got be a pony in here somewhere.”
I also hear talk about how the bank will perform some sort of due diligence that validates the technology. This, again, is an indication of the poor understanding of the process of the average ED “angel.”
When banks perform what they refer to as “due diligence”, it is all about finances: figuring out who owns what, and making sure there are no surprises after the deal is done. A lot of it is just like the title search done when you are selling a home.
The banker will figure out what IP ED owns, how much debt ED has, who the shareholders are, and so on.
As part of the due diligence, a bank might identify risk factors, and say something like “if the video codec ED owns turns out to suck, everyone loses their shorts”, but the bank itself is not going to provide a critical assessment of the technology. For one, they don’t have the know-how. Second, if they did, they would be exposing themselves to liability if the deal goes south.
Anyway, it all seems odd, because I can’t imagine what would prevent a company like Euclid Discoveries from calling an investment banker today, and saying, hey, let’s have a meeting in 3 weeks. I mean, what could prevent it?
- Mark
January 25th, 2010 at 7:05 am
The whole, “we’re going to make a call” thing is total BS! They might make a call (so what?), but to come out 3 weeks ago and throw it out there as a way to “settle” everyone down was crap! They couldn’t make “the” call last Wednesday? It really just bought them 6 more weeks to tweak and make it more valuable? Mark’s totally right about the 15th to. Why wouldn’t they be able to meet? If not, ANOTHER smoke screen and can’t wait to hear why!
Can’t meet the 11th?????????????????????? Something’s fishy!!!
January 25th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Something’s fishy all right.
This whole thing is………………
A SCAM
A RIP-OFF
A CON
A SWINDLE
A HOAX
Face it people…you’ve been DUPED…
To the people that can absorb their monetary loss: Good for you
To the people that can’t:
Life is tough…now, move on
this topix is not even worth discussing anymore.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:09 am
Has anybody had any confirmation about being finished or calling the bank? More likely the day ends with one of Bob’s many meaningless platitudes. “Stick a fork in it”, “Pop the cork”, “Take it to the bank” “Get out the Champagne”, “Building value”. I am getting nauseous just thinking about it.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Real Truth,
Topic not worth…….? OK! I wouldn’t expect to see you on here anymore.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
@ Jimmy…
Jimmy’s under the boards…Jimmy’s in the open…Jimmy makes the shot…Jimmy played pretty good…Jimmy sells’em…Jimmy is pretty sweet on you…Jimmy’s been watching you…Jimmy’s new in town…Jimmy doesn’t really know anyone…Jimmy would like to get to know you…Jimmy’s ready…Jimmy’s got some new moves…JIMMY’S DOWN…Jimmy might have a compound fracture.. Jimmy’s going into shock…JIMMY WONT FORGET YOU…JIMMY HOLDS GRUDGES…Jimmy doesn’t like misunderstanding…Jimmy and misunderstanding kinda clash…Jimmy’s very unusual…Jimmy’ll see you around…
January 25th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
ALSO…
Get out the Champagne!!!!!!!!!!
January 25th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
@ Bank On It
That’s some great stuff you’ve laid out there! You an investor in Euclid? Or just another low level tech “expert” who has all the answers?
January 25th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Well, apparently the call wasn’t made today but rather an e-mail was sent requesting an appointment with the bank. What’s up with that????? Just another one of Euclid’s delay tactics!!!!! What a load of CRAP!!!!!
January 25th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Is anyone really surprised?
January 25th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
@ Yellow, Hopeful, & you too Jimmy
Refer to post….January 25th, 2010 at 10:20 am
January 26th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Thank you Mark for an explanation about the “bank”. The pony comment was priceless. I even chuckled. The biggest tell…setting a date to call the bank…when you need an apt. for whatever reason YOU MAKE THE CALL, RIGHT NOW, NOT, WELL I THINK I’LL SET A DATE TO MAKE THE CALL TO THE BANK. With this much chatter and doubt, if I were ED, I’d be chopping at the bit to call the bank if for no other reason than to prove the nay-sayers wrong.
January 26th, 2010 at 8:08 am
The one thing that seems to be forgotten here is that they said they would be done in January and make the call to the bank for the 15. Anybody heard they are done? If they were, or they were even close they would be shouting it from the rooftops. Three weeks and counting. 98% and still going, and going, and going. GONE
January 26th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
REF: “if for no other reason than to prove the nay-sayers wrong.”
THE NAY-SAYERS WILL NEVER BE PROVEN WRONG.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:02 am
February 15th will come & go…
refer to the post on November 25th, 2009 at 7:44 am
January 27th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Apple announces new device sized between laptop and smartphone to be called an iPad. Apple will also purchase & utilize Euclid Discoveries’ next-generation video processing and compression technology compatible with the iPad. Together, Apple & Euclid technology will revolutionize the way consumers view existing wired and wireless networks used with hardware, software, and networking equipment commonly applied today.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
I read the article on IPAD and it didn’t metion anything about Euclid Technology.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
@Breaking News And just where did you get this fairy tale? Oh crap…I’m starting to sound just as cynical as the rest of you.
January 28th, 2010 at 7:13 am
I have been reading the comments of another post on this blog about ED where, several years ago, people believed that they would be done “next month”, get their checks “by the end of the year”, etc. Really, this is a sad story…
Out of curiosity, what happened to the private board that Tiny Angel set up years ago? Or what happened to your private forum, Mark? Do you know what has become of these people?
I may know quite a bit about software, but I’m quite clueless about angel investments, so please forgive the ignorance of the following question.
Speaking hypothetically, if the investors agreed on that course of action, would there be any way for them to dissolve the company so that they can at least recover the money that hasn’t been spent yet? Or all of them together really don’t have any control over the company? This is of course a purely hypothetical question.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:55 am
TO: Maloeran
REF: “if the investors agreed on that course of action, would there be any way for them to dissolve the company so that they can at least recover the money that hasn’t been spent yet? Or all of them together really don’t have any control over the company?”
THERE IS NO COURSE OF ACTION.
NO MONEY CAN OR WILL BE RECOVERED.
SPEAKING OF MONEY,
ALL Y’ALL NEED TO DO IS “KISS IT GOOD-BYE!!!!!!!!”
January 28th, 2010 at 10:48 am
@Maloeran:
I shut down my board - there was little or no traffic on it. Several members told me they were under a great deal of pressure to not participate in any forum that I was running. So it didn’t seem worth keeping up.
The private board run by Tiny Angel apparently had some issues with domain renewal or something like that and quietly vanished.
As for your question re: dissolution of the company, in any company a controlling block of stockholders can force this to happen. I have absolutely no knowledge about the list of stockholders, and most of the ED investors don’t seem to either. It would not surprise me to find out that the current management holds a majority of voting shares, and keeps it that way every time a new round of financing occurs. But that is just speculation on my part.
- Mark
January 28th, 2010 at 11:09 am
Mark, you are the only person making sense of this entire situation.
Best of luck to you my friend.
January 28th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
I agree with commonsense…I’ve learned more from you, Mark Nelson, than anyone. Thanks for taking the time to answer questions(even when redundant) and provide both the technical and investment info.
January 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Stay positive & strong everybody. We are almost to the end.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:38 am
I agree with Big Guy! Why not? After this much time, why not just let it play out over the next few months? Yes months. Not sure many, but pretty sure its not going to be sold in a couple of weeks?
The negative posts help no one and isn’t going to make this happen sooner. Based on the posts, I think they are entering the selling phase. What’s the issue now?
January 29th, 2010 at 8:53 am
@ DoneYet
what other options are there than to wait?
NONE.
Posts on this blog will neither help or harm the cause.
you think they are “entering the selling phase”
pass the kool-aid over here please.
REF: pretty sure it’s “not going to be sold in a couple of weeks”
AMEN…not in a couple of weeks, or months, or years.
WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 29th, 2010 at 9:07 am
I invested in a company I thought was based on the right track. I don’t want to say the name of the company but it had nothing to do with compression. The company had a good line I am still believe that if they told the truth it would have made a lot of money but I think they wanted to cheat people out of there money from the very beginning. They claimed there was only going to be a fixed number of shares soon after I bought they started creating more shares. I had lot of shares. But they kept merging the shares in a stock combine and they created more shares. Today a have one share of the useless crap and I see they are still playing the game with other suckers. I don’t have the money to play the game but I think any time you see shares combine or the company create more shares when they claim they will not, is a sure time to get the hell out.
Do any of the Eucild investors know if the group keeps issuing new shares or what?
But the investment company that sold me the crap has a hot tip sure thing they want me to invest in. I told them I don’t have that kind of money. I wish I knew how to get off the sucker list. But for those of you smarter than me, the hot tip was to get into California bonds. Since they can’t fail and if things get bad Obama will give California more money so its a win win situation.
If I had the money I almost think I would do it, it’s a no lose situation can anybody see a down side to this?
January 29th, 2010 at 11:05 am
@ DoneYet
what other options are there than to wait?
NONE.
Posts on this blog will neither help or harm the cause.
you think they are “entering the selling phase”
pass the kool-aid over here please.
REF: pretty sure it’s “not going to be sold in a couple of weeks”
AMEN…not in a couple of weeks, or months, or years.
WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 29th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
@ Really:
Are you saying they are not moving forward in the selling phase/process or that there is no product, mkt, or prospective buyer(s) and there will never be a sale? How do you know this? You seem angry? Are you an investor?
January 29th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
If he’s an investor he’s probably angry!
January 29th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Stay positive & strong everybody. We are almost to the end. Taking it to the bank next month.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
@Doneyet No offense, but where have you been? If you go back and reread (starting with the 25th of May 2006) The whole discussion/argument is that ED HAS NO PRODUCT. The tech experts say it’s impossible for ED to develop the product, so for the past 10 years ED’s been running a scam. They have some pretty convincing arguments.As someone whith $$ on the line, I would love to believe they’re wrong. I think if you go back and read just from Dec.2009 up to the present you can get a feel for the arguments both pro and con.
January 30th, 2010 at 4:56 am
@Doneyet
They have been entering the selling phase since 2001. They cannot enter the selling phase until the finishing phase is done. Has anybody been told formally they are DONE? Because until it is DONE, FINISHED, COMPLETED they have NOTHING to SELL. GET IT PEOPLE. The key word is DONE.
Talk of Lawyers, banks, $$$$, means nothing until they say they are Done. Done, Done, Done, Done, Done.
They have told us they never will be done. They will continue to work until they sell it. That is why they have said they are in the selling phase for the past 10 years. Usually when they need more money.
January 30th, 2010 at 5:44 am
@Main Man Says,
Ref. Taking it to the bank next month.
Do they have an appointment with the bank yet?
I only heard this third hand but supposedly the banker is out of the country. So there is no appointment for next month? YET. Should be an interesting month.
January 30th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Why would/should next month be any different last month?? Or the month before? Or the month before?
Or the month before? Or the month before?
WHY ?
Please, somebody tell me, give me SOMETHING, ANYTHING to think that there could possibly be any reason to be optimistic?
Guess what? Another round of fund-raising coming up!
January 30th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
A story about an entrepreneurial venture gone bad:
Investors win $26M award against Tilleys
From the Nashville Post:
In this case, the investors now have a big judgment against the guy, but he says he’s broke. If they can’t dig up any of his funds, basically they finish up with nothing for their effort.
- Mark
January 30th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
@MARK
Well that means EuclidInvestors can file suit but I see us being in the same situation as the investors in Tilleys. The one thing it would do is stop the exective pay and keep other people from loosing their savings as many of us have. It would also allow investors to write their investment off as a loss at 3000.00 per year. I have a feeling that some wouldn’t live long enough to write it off. Lets hope that it never comes to that and they come thru. If it is true that they are ready to start raising money again then I think that should tell us once in for all that it is a scam.
January 30th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
@Ron:
Of course I’m not privy to what management is communicating to shareholders, but after all this time it would be pretty discouraging to hear that another round of funding was starting up. That would mean, first, that existing shareholders are going to see their ownership diluted. And second, it means that the company was not expecting to be sold or to have any other revenue sources any time soon.
A company that is about to be purchased but is tapped out can usually arrange some kind of bridge financing without diluting their equity. But to do this there have to be serious offers in play.
ED does an excellent job managing both the expectations and behavior of their shareholders.
- Mark
January 30th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
It aint called “mushroom management” for nothing.
January 31st, 2010 at 7:09 pm
EDangel Says: May 26th, 2006
ED has ALWAYS kept me informed from the start! If other angels sunk their life savings into a “crap shoot”, yes a LONG SHOT, than that’s their problem and probably not very wise. ED owes me nothing! I went into this HOPING they would do something, NOT EXPECTING anything. That’s the nature of investing don’t you think!
I’m waiting patiently and so should you! It’ll all be over sooner than later, successful or not! Hopefully, the angels, founders, developers, and others associated with this will have the last laugh.
*****************************************************
HOW DO ALL YOU “INVESTORS” FEEL TODAY ???
January 31st, 2010 at 8:28 pm
You want to know how the investors feel? Most of them feel that their friends or family members who assured them that this was a wonderful investment that was going to pay off soon were duped just like they were and, most importantly, the president of Euclid kept telling them that they were going to sell soon, it was almost done, it was done and they were going to the bank in two weeks, yada, yada, yada…..the thing is…most of us trusted the people who got us into this and most of us got into this thinking that we were investing in a pretty sure thing! Blast from the Past may be a very clever investor who goes around making nngel investments on a regular basis or investing venture capital on a regular basis but most of us are hard-working ordinary people who took money out of our 401K’s or got a home equity loan, etc. to make this investment. We may be suckers and e may have been duped but most of us did this because somebody we trusted said it was a “good thing.”
February 1st, 2010 at 6:23 am
FINALLY, SOMEONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH:
“Most of them feel that their friends or family members who assured them that this was a wonderful investment that was going to pay off soon were duped just like they were and, most importantly, the president of Euclid kept telling them that they were going to sell soon, it was almost done, it was done and they were going to the bank in two weeks, yada, yada, yada”
THANK YOU HOPEFUL. NOW, TO ALL YOU FOLKS WHO STILL THINK THAT SANTA CLAUS, THE EASTER BUNNY & TOOTH FAIRY ARE REAL, CONTINUE TO LIVE IN YOU FANTASY WORLD. BECAUSE NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS MONTH, NEXT MONTH, NEXT YEAR.
IT’S OVER.
February 1st, 2010 at 8:38 am
“Sure thing”, “good thing”, “whatever thing”, it doesn’t matter! THERE IS NO SURE THING IN THIS WORLD! Someone told you that this company was going to flip the compression world on it’s ear and you thought it was going to be a sure thing? Friends & family? You still have to do your research and be able to take the loss or extended time for completion. 401’s & Equity loans? How stupid is that?
Quit blaming other people! If you feel like you’ve lost everything, it’s YOUR FAULT! Not your brother, sister, dad, buddy, even the company principles. “Promises”? Give me a break!
February 1st, 2010 at 12:42 pm
@DoneYet:
It’s not quite fair to say that whatever happens is the fault of the investor. In a given investment, there is certainly an element of chance and skill. If the team that is spending your money has bad breaks or bad skills, you lose, and that’s life.
However, if you are deliberately defrauded, that is another matter.
I’m not saying that is what happening with Euclid Discoveries. I have no evidence that suggests that. But if someone takes your money based on bald-faced lies, then no, that is not entirely your fault, and we have both a civil and criminal legal system that is designed to seek redress.
To take what you are saying to a bit of an extreme, if you are robbed at gunpoint, it is a lot different than throwing your money away on booze and women (or men.) Yes, there are ways that you can cut down on your risk of being robbed, but ultimately, this can happen to you no matter how careful you are. And thus, we tend to blame the robber, not the victim.
I have no idea what these individual investors actually heard, but it seems like in many cases they were pulled in by people they trust: family members, neighbors, coworkers. They seem to have been promised huge paybacks by people who actually had no clue. The point is, the system used to fund these LLCs played into people’s natural trust system. If you can’t trust your uncle, or your pastor, or whatever, who can you trust?
So I don’t think you should be quite so hard on people who, one way or another, appear to have been taken advantage of.
- Mark
February 1st, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Eloquently stated Mr. Nelson.
@ ‘DoneYet’
i like some early comments from ‘curious’…
Why would/should next month be any different last month?? Or the month before? Or the month before?
Or the month before? Or the month before?
WHY ?
Please, somebody tell me, give me SOMETHING, ANYTHING to think that there could possibly be any reason to be optimistic?
Sure, DoneYet, we all know “THERE IS NO SURE THING IN THIS WORLD” & “If you feel like you’ve lost everything, it’s YOUR FAULT!”
Okay, i’ll buy into that…BUT, some people had some help along the way.
You know, the BIG GUY wants this thing sold because he wants to buy a new airplane…what a load of crap!!!
February 1st, 2010 at 6:00 pm
@ Mark
Good job! Let me go after@DoneYet just a little more. Only a principle would make the comments that you have made. Why do I think this? Because I have heard how mad the principles are because investors have vented on this blog. Yet there is nothing wrong with the way they have lied to investors time after time. I have news for you principles. Like the example of Tilleys, the investors got judgment and I see no difference in that case and what has happened with Euclid. If Euclid is a scam and it someday comes in front of a jury, I hope the principles get more then just judgment against them. They need time like Madoff to think if it was right to lie to people to get them to invest.
February 1st, 2010 at 6:23 pm
To Ron
If what you say is true (about the principles being mad because investors have vented on this blog) here’s a little more to be mad about.
“…We received more compression on Thursday night. Jeff’s tests last night should be in today. He has another buildout to test. Again we need feature to be utilized 100%. We will let you know ASAP when we make the bank call.”
Well, if you all will excuse me now, I have to get ready for the “BIG PARTY” planned in Kentucky when they sell this thing.
LMAO !
February 1st, 2010 at 8:42 pm
@Time is UP:
I was under the impression that the so-called “bank call” was supposed to have been made by January 25 (or Thanksgiving maybe.) I guess it still hasn’t been made?
If ED was really in the final phase of just wrapping things up, I can’t see any reason for not already talking to the bank and lining up investors. It’s not like an investment bank is going to say “no, we won’t talk to you until your product is polished and ready to go on the shelf”.
If these dates were promised, and then regularly broken or compromised, I’d be worried that my company actually had nothing worth offering up for sale.
This sort of behavior just doesn’t make sense.
- Mark
February 1st, 2010 at 8:44 pm
@Time is up. YEA YEA YEA I have heard all that type of BS b-4! They have made so many build outs that they have to make them in CA now.
February 1st, 2010 at 8:46 pm
@ Mark as always I agree.
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:39 am
@ Mark & Ron
Don’t get me wrong. I agree with both of you.
Re; “This sort of behavior just doesn’t make sense.”
That’s just it. NOTHING, & I mean NOTHING about this venture makes any sense. My father is going to drive himself (not to mention those around him) crazy due to money situation. All the promises, missed deadlines…it just gets so old, but he still believes.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:33 am
Not a principal, just another frustrated investor! But, I guess the difference is that I was/am prepared to lose my investment. IT WAS HIGH RISK! Am I frustrated with the communication from the company, yes. Am I somewhat sensitive to things changing along the way, yes. Do I always believe their excuses, no. Do I think they are a scam and have ripped off anyone, no. I haven’t seen or heard anything factual that validates blog posters claims of a rip off. Do I think my investment is still in play, yes. I try to stay positive until the end, rather than spew negativity all around. Call me stupid, OK. But, one thing I do know, negative investor comments on this blog are not pushing this ahead any faster and may be producing a delaying effect? Don’t know?
Everyone, do what you need to do, but in the end of the day they are still moving forward. Is it at your pace? Probably not. At mine, no. They are not getting any more of my money and I believe future funding needs will be hard meet. I believe that I’ve come this far, what’s a few more weeks or months. If I call for an investigation, how is that going to help me? Slow them down? I don’t think they have any real assets to liquidate if something bad was found anyway. Again, I think they are on the up and up, maybe just a little naive based on what it would take to actually do something like this. Who knows?
I would appreciate posters not bashing me for my opinion. Wrong or right, its mine.
February 2nd, 2010 at 12:12 pm
No bashing you from me, DoneYet…
i agree they have no “real assets to liquidate” if something bad was found anyway…
& i love the “We received more compression on Thursday night. Jeff’s tests last night should be in today. He has another buildout to test. Again we need feature to be utilized 100%. We will let you know ASAP when we make the bank call.” text message…
but i do agree with an earlier response, that “Posts on this blog will neither help or harm the cause.” i mean, come on people, we are talking about a several hundred million dollar operation, right??
;-)
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:30 pm
>i agree they have no “real assets to liquidate”
Hey wait a minute. Just a couple of months ago I saw this announcement about the 73th International patent application. And of course there are seven US patents granted and surely many more pending.
If a company that exists only to create intellectual property has no value in its patent portfolio, something is wrong.
- Mark
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:37 pm
@DoneYet
401’s & Equity Loans? How stupid is that?
Referring to those who pulled the cash from 401’s and obtaining home equity loans as stupid falls under the category of “bashing”. Basicly, our posts are becoming repetitive. There is no hard evidence of a scam. Most who have $$ invested in ED are becoming doubtful.Then we have the tech experts saying “Ain’t no way ED can do what they claim”.Those that have invested more than they can afford to loose are sweating bullets. Those who have been in it for the long haul of ten years are just tired of the SOS.However, if you had something that was just so far advanced beyond what the experts know…whouldn’t you keep it under wraps? All of us with money invested are in the same boat. The best we can do is go on about life as if ED did not exhist. No mind games of “what will I do with all that cash” and if ED is for real, then all can celebrate.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:00 am
@ Blue
“The best we can do is go on about life as if ED did not exhist.”
MIGHT AS WELL, BECAUSE FOR GENERAL PURPOSES, IT DOESN’T.
“Thoe who have been in it for the long haul of ten years…”
CAN GUARANTEE THAT LITTLE BIT OF INFO WASN’T PRESENTED TO OUR FAMILY WHEN WE INVESTED. THAT PEOPLE HAD BEEN WAITING FOR (AT THAT TIME) EIGHT YEARS.
ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE A PREDICTION AS TO WHY THE BANK CALL THIS MONTH WILL FAIL? & WHAT’S WITH THIS BANK CALL? THOUGHT ED HAD A PRODUCT TO SELL TO ATT, GOOGLE, MICROSOFT, OR SOME COMPANY OUTTA CHINA? YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT THE BANK IS GOING TO SAY? “Y’ALL NEED MORE FUNDS.”
@ Mark, “If a company that exists only to create intellectual property has no value in its patent portfolio, something is wrong.”
WELL, DUH…
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:03 am
@ Blue
You’re right! I did bash the ones who used Equity & 401 money and I apologize! Just frustrated with the blame game.
@ Mark
I forgot about the patents.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:59 am
BLUE SAID: “However, if you had something that was just so far advanced beyond what the experts know…whouldn’t you keep it under wraps?”
And the answer to that is NO, NO, NO!
As I have pointed out in previous posts, the cost of storage is falling like a rock, and this in turn destroys the value of any compression. The claim is that this software is worth billions.
Who would buy it now?
Twenty years ago there was a large market for compression, but the overall data/video market was not so big, so it would be unlikely to get even a billion dollars then.
Ten years ago the overall market was way bigger, and drives/communications was limiting data/video exchange. I could see a billion dollar market existing then.
But today?
Who is running out of storage on their home/small business machines? Virtually no-one, and if they are then buying a new external drive will be cheaper and more flexible.
Large businesses? No, they buy more disk arrays and gain the advantage of faster data access at the same time.
Media suppliers, none - many are scaling back and the few like Apple, IBM, Microsoft and Google don’t sit around listening to empty claims. They either develop their own compression software that works TODAY (Apple, IBM, Microsoft) or buy out a company who’s software has already been proved to work.
So what market is left that is willing to pay out a billion dollars for compression software? Please name one, because I don’t see any. And if there no big buyers where is the money going to come from?
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
uhm, video over the internet anyone?
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:07 pm
@ Earl
“So what market is left that is willing to pay out a billion dollars for compression software? Please name one, because I don’t see any. And if there no big buyers where is the money going to come from?”
AMEN BROTHER !!!!! to all you said.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Mucho Says: uhm, video over the internet anyone?
What internet are you using?
Youtube is working today, and Google just bought ON2 for better compression because ON2’s codec works TODAY.
Google paid money to a company that could show a working compressor, but they sure did not pay a billion dollars for it.
Claims that video over internet is worth billions for a new compressor company is a mistake, people already get video with the present compressors and there are still better *WORKING* compressors coming online. So again, why think anyone will pay Euclid billions for their no-demo-available software.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm
I would just like to add that personally, I watch videos over the internet from the BBC (England), CBS (America), PBS (Canada) and I get videos from a large number of blogs and sites in Europe and other locations around the world.
The internet already supports viewing video with the present codecs we use.
Yet better and free to the user codecs are already coming online.
Thus still better compression is not worth a billion dollars.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:23 pm
I believe there would be quite a market for a video codec reaching 5x the compression level of H.264/MPEG-4. You can always improve the quality, and new unexpected uses could emerge from the new capability. Saying anything else would be a bit like saying 640kb of RAM should be enough for anybody.
Now though, that would require something radically different and better than the block-based motion compensation encoding of MPEG4. Again : you will *never* get anywhere near 460% just with various little tweaks to MPEG4 encoding. ED claims their codec is mpeg4-based, and their numerous patents are all about various little tweaks to mpeg4 encoding. Therefore, they can not have what they claim to have.
But are much better video compression rates possible at all? I think so… and I’ll randomly drop an idea ( without patents, NDAs, or any of that crap ).
Let’s say, instead of encoding raw blocks of pixels, an encoder could try to “build” 3d geometry that matches the scenes of the video. That geometry could have various properties defined for its facets ( textures, etc. ), with general light sources identified. The defined 3d geometry would be modified as time flows, as well as the camera’s position in space.
That alone would give a very cartoonish look, but the idea would be to use the rendering of this 3d geometry as “reference” from which further deviations are encoded. As in most data compression techniques, what is predicted as “likely” would consume less bits than the more unlikely cases ( as with arithmetic encoding, etc. ). The more accurate the base 3d representation used, the less “deviations from the reference” we have to encode.
If that kind of compression technique were to be implemented, what kind of compression rate improvement would we get? If we were filming clouds passing by an airplane window, none really. For an one hour video of me randomly wandering in the house, there would be a huge potential gain.
That being said… such a codec would require an astronomical amount of computing resources, for decoding and especially encoding, so it might not be very practical.
In any case really… To me it’s obvious ED doesn’t have anything. If they had something like I described above, just after registering their patents, they should have been publishing numerous papers and presenting at conferences to drum up interest. I don’t believe any of that stuff about people “stealing their ideas”. First, that’s what patents are for. Second, ideas are cheap ( the one above was free! ). The amount of work involved to implement them isn’t.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
@ Maloeran
I believe everything you said, even if i didn’t understand it.
ESPECIALLY the part: “In any case really… To me it’s obvious ED doesn’t have anything.”
Reckon when some of these other people will wake up?
February 4th, 2010 at 5:48 am
Maloeran Says:
“I believe there would be quite a market for a video codec reaching 5x the compression level of H.264/MPEG-4.”
I have no problem with the idea of a better video codec, even one that is 5-10 times better than what we have today. If I had such a piece of code I could approach Google, Apple, IBM and Microsoft and walk away with millions in my pocket and licence fees that will pay millions more in the years to come.
BUT!
That is not Euclid’s claim. They don’t talk about millions of dollars, nor do they talk about tens of millions of dollars, not even hundreds of millions of dollars.
They claim the code is worth BILLIONS of dollars.
That is what their investors are basing their hopes of future income on, and there is no billion dollar market.
Thus the continued claims are a scam, because the claimed future windfall does not exist - PERIOD!
February 4th, 2010 at 6:49 am
Very good point, Earl Colby Pottinger.
You can reach the same conclusion from their impossible technical claims, from their very questionable business practices, or from their absurd market claims…
In the end, no matter which way you look at it, we all agree that it is a scam.
I really feel sorry for all the people who put money into this… If I were one of those who had dragged friends and family to invest money in the scheme, I think it would be very tempting to keep on denying reality, because the harsh reality would be just too painful to accept.
February 4th, 2010 at 7:18 am
Maloeran, Earl, Mark, and other self proclaimed experts, you’ve got to be idiots! Why would you be wasting your time on this? I would suspect that compression experts like yourselves would have way more important things to do rather than spend your time bashing a company you know nothing about and dashing peoples hopes. After you hit “Submit Comment” do you get a good feeling? Sense of accomplishment? Do you call each other and virtually “bump bellies”?
Keep up the good work!
February 4th, 2010 at 8:00 am
As usual, Maloeran & Earl are right on point !!
@ 8th Steet
REF: “dashing peoples hopes”
These posters are not the ones dashing peoples’ hope…ED has done enough of that over the years.
Oh, yeah…”Euclid Discoveries Marks Milestone With 73rd International Patent Application”
Ha, Ha, Ha, Hee, Hee, Hee
Have a good day.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:41 am
8th Street, how can you possibly believe that we get a “good feeling” and “sense of accomplishment” out of this? Or have you never felt compassion, the need to act when faced with injustice and the pain of other human beings?
I care because it pains me to see how people have been brutally exploited. And if I can do just a little to perhaps avoid further harm coming to other people, I’ll certainly do so.
As many others, software programming is my field, and I prefer it clean from scammers and the like.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:44 am
@8th Street
It’s not about bashing a company.
It’s about accountability.
Those who don’t tell the truth eventually get exposed.
Septmeber.
Whole team going to Concorde staying until done. Absolutely done by Thanksgiving.
Missing Thanksgiving.
Need a couple more weeks to clean up code.
Calling bank in January for Feb 15 meeting.
No notice of meeting.
All normal business practices and communications cease when in Europe.
Top 25 power women in the world can only handle one thing at a time.
That is how she got in the top 25.
Need money for ED or Corista.
Deadlines get hard, communication, whispers up, bigger pay off.
Building value.
Investors get hard.
Should be hard getting investors.
Money comes in.
End of communication and deadlines.
Start all over when the money gets short.
Mrs. W and two Mr. W’s don’t go without food.
‘10 years after’ still paying there own bloated salaries.
Staff reads blog can’t work for 3 days because so upset.
Lucky staff 10 years still no product anyone has seen.
Facebook B stands in front of a judge and tries to explain the only thing in writing is on his watch.
B and R deny responsibility.
W’s smart enough to let someone else do the talking for them.
They never said that.
Eleven days to meeting, let’s see how that goes.
I get a “really good feeling” for at least trying to expose these guys for what they are.
All this goes away when it finally goes to the bank and stays at the bank. Anyone think 10 years is long enough?
February 4th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Yikes, that pretty much sums it up.
February 4th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
@ Belly Buster
you ARE my new hero.
Folks, this is over. Has been over for a long time.
One day…
One day…
& if this blog helps “just a little to perhaps avoid further harm coming to other people” then keep on posting my friends.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@ Belly Buster
You are my hero also. You told the true story in few words. I understand any investment has risk but when I think of how investors were lied to by the principles of the company who I have to add, receive large salaries to get investors to invest, I can’t help but to feel they should be accountable for damages in the event they don’t get ED sold as promised. The Security exchange acknowledges that investors are to assume risk but they don’t support misrepresentation of information.
February 5th, 2010 at 10:01 am
Get ready everybody.
Letter coming out telling us to be quiet, do not comment (publicly or privately) as ED is just about complete.
Hear that?
It’s almost ready.
So close.
Just a matter of time before everybody is rich.
Closing next month.
Or the next.
Or the next.
Or the next.
But just be patient everybody, because this thing is so close. Can’t you just feel the excitement?
I’m gonna go buy me a new dress for the big celebration in Kentucky. R & R told me, so I know it’s true. Think Nancy P will be there? I can’t wait.
PS…may need just a “little” more funding before we can finalize everything. That’s okay, right everybody?
Everybody????????????????
February 7th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@What Now?
If it is truly time to sell, the big question is going to be: what exactly is for sale?
If it is truly a 460% improvement over MPEG-4, there might be some real interest and ED could sell for real money.
If it’s just some minor tweaking of MPEG-4 leading to small improvements, it might be hard to find anyone interested in paying anything.
It’s still pretty hard not to be skeptical. A company that was in the process of putting some technology up for sale would normally be trying to whip up a frenzy among buyers with PR, demonstrations, etc. The fact that ED is doing none of this seems strange.
After all, if you build a better mousetrap, it is true that the world might beat a path to your door, but not if they don’t even know it exists.
One would think that at this meeting with the investment bankers in two weeks, a complete portfolio of products should be ready, including demonstrations.
- Mark
February 8th, 2010 at 9:51 am
@ Mark
ref: “we have enough trouble with ED…”
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
WHAT TROUBLE?
ED HAS DONE EVERYTHING THEY’VE SAID THEY WOULD, “ON THE BOTTOM LINE.”
ALL THIS OTHER STUFF IS JUST WISHFUL THINKING BY STUPID INVESTORS.
ED HAS NO TROUBLE…AS LONG AS THE MONEY KEEPS POURING IN.
2-23-10
February 8th, 2010 at 11:08 am
11-26-09 Thanksgiving gonna to be done.
2-23-10 4 more months gone.
What will happen this time?
Meeting gets canceled.
Meeting gets postponed.
Never was a meeting.
Number one reason.
Sent back to do more work. Last time that happened was three years ago, were going back to bank in 2 weeks.
I am hearing no crowing about being done and everything is great.
Even most hard core believers are not excited.
Wait until the shit hits the fan after this missed projection.
Get out the paper bags, cause the Aint’s are back.
Ain’t happening.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
That is the running joke at my place of employment right now.
What WILL the excuse be this time?
Because nothing (NOTHING) is going to happen 2-23.
Bellie has given us a few ideas, but WHAT will the excuse be this time???
Anybody?
February 9th, 2010 at 7:10 am
Profile of the Sociopath
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as “their right.”
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
Any one we know?
February 9th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
The potential buyer (nameless at this time for security reasons) will most likely not be able to produce adequate funds/finances that ED executives would like to garner for its investors for a product of this magnitude.
That’s my story, & I’m sticking to it.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:40 am
This thing is about to POP!!!!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
@Bardo:
June 6, 2008 was your first prediction of imminent poppage on this board.
I’m glad you have maintained your enthusiasm, but you have never given any reason to think that there is any actionable intelligence behind your comments.
In fact, just the opposite. Your failures have shown you to be a negative indicator, rather than a positive.
- Mark
February 10th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Bardo Says:
June 6th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I’ve heard that this things about to pop. Anybody out there know anything?
19 MONTHS LATER BARDO…NOTHING…THANKS!!!
February 11th, 2010 at 4:47 am
I’ll be back in 19 months!
February 11th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
how about 12 days Bardo ??
Give us an update then.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Not sure there’ll be any revelations on the 23d? Wouldn’t expect them to announce anything on the plan going forward with the bank. They’ve said all along that once they enter the “selling” phase, communication specific to the process will not exist.
Now, all the naysayers and compression experts can jump on those comments and spew their negativity.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Negativity
No negativity here.
Just fact.
& fact is there are a lot of gullible people out there that think something IS going to happen on the 23rd
Sad. It’s just oh so sad
:-(
February 12th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Hear that?
Right.
Nothing.
They said it would be very quiet right before the big deal went down.
so, Shhhhh
(i’m wisphering now…only ten more days)
February 13th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Potential buyer will most likely not be able to produce adequate funds/finances that ED executives would like to garner for its investors for a product of this magnitude.
February 14th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Prognosticator, if their excuse is that their potential buyer is “not able” to produce adequate funds for such a magnificent product, I’m hoping no one will be buying that story.
If they were looking for serious buyers, they should have been drumming up interest, contacting people, with demos and presentations at numerous conferences.
Mark also said he once tried to contact Euclid to arrange a demo with his very deep pockets employer, and of course, they refused.
What else. Since they pretend their software has military applications, I could also get them in touch with people at the US Army Research Laboratory. The US gov would not be interested in purchasing the rights, strictly “US government purpose rights”, which are not limiting the commercial potential in any way. ( That’s the way they work and I should know : some of my software has been sold to the US gov under such a license. Though I didn’t get the check, my employer did. )
Of course, I won’t bother trying to put anyone in touch, since we already know ED will never be interested in any kind of demo or negotiation! They are not looking for potential buyers, because they don’t have anything to sell.
February 14th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Count down: 9 days until the next big excuse.
What will it be this time?
February 15th, 2010 at 6:43 am
Good stuff again Bellie! What do you compression and business “experts” expect to hear on the 23rd? It’s a meeting. So I assume you’ll be here in full force the next day spewing your lame, negative, and uninformed comments.
Maloeran, I think mark’s panties got wrinkled when euclid rebuffed his attempts at self importance when in fact he was only a very basic programmer with his “deep pocketed” employer. If they wanted to get chamber’s attention I’m pretty sure they didn’t and don’t need mark.
February 15th, 2010 at 8:48 am
8th St. (AKA ??) I don’t believe my comments are uninformed. I could get into a pissing match with you as to who actually is spewing what, but I won’t.
At a minimum I believe we should expect you actually have the meeting as promised since Thanksgiving.
I am not convinced you will have that meeting.
If you actually have the meeting and don’t get sent home with your tails between your legs I will reserve judgement.
“Most importantly” you cannot honestly expect us to believe that it is the investors driving the expectations.
As said numerous times; 10 years is a long time and how much time is enough?
February 15th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Bellie (AKA??) 10 years is indeed a long time. How long does it take for new tech/inventions? There must be a standard out there that you base your comments on. And based on achieved improvements or new tech, wouldn’t there be turns and twists in the road based on what you originally set out to do? Just say’n.
The principals owe ALL OF THIS BS to their ineptness associated with managing their investors. It all comes down to that. The supposed “finish line” is close. They did what they said or not and unlike development, selling can’t go on and on and on and on. If it’s good, it’ll be gobbled up quickly. So, they will either be heros or heels. If it’s the latter, they’ll spend a very long time hiding from their friends.
February 15th, 2010 at 11:38 am
8th, when I first invested they were talking about sending full length movies over a 56 k modem. I can now watch movies over the internet. How innovative are we now? Technology doesn’t stay revolutionary for decades no matter how good it it.
They don’t say they “can” build it, they say they “have” built it. Either they have or they haven’t. If they haven’t they have been lying, and if they have, it’s time to sell. Time is no longer our friend it is quickly becoming our enemy.
Guess that is the bottom line. So if I am spewing lame, negative, and uninformed comments so be it. I don’t see it that way.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:17 am
Bellie, I hope you do not still think the tech is based on a 56K modem? Surely not! Thus the change in direction and ultimate solution developed. I agree, time is never technology’s friend an has been ED’s enemy for quite a long time as the challenge of viewing quality vids over the internet and smart phones is becoming less of a problem.
Let’s just wait a LITTLE while longer and see what happens. The company has no place to go from here and they’ve used most of the excuses for prolonging the development. Their investors won’t believe to much more BS at this point. This success or not has implications (wink, wink!).
February 16th, 2010 at 8:58 am
Way to avoid the issue 8th, the point been raise that they made a claim years ago to do something (send streaming video over a 56K modem) which nobody could do, and to date still can’t do with said modem.
Their claim was to offer a service that NO-ONE could match at the time.
But today, anybody can get video over the internet. TODAY!
So the question still remains, why would anyone pay them big bucks for a service that hundreds of sites already do today, why would anyone spend more money of their compression?
The fact is simple, to date not a single fan of Euclid can name a single market that is willing to even spend $100,000,000 for Euclid claimed compressor, much less the billions they claim it is worth.
Go on, try to name one. You can’t, because costs of present day systems are already so low relatively that it is cheaper to buy more hardware than Euclid claimed asking price.
As for development cycles, it usually is 3-6 months to get from theory to working prototype, and less than two years from prototype to commercial product.
Euclid is scamming you when they claim it takes longer.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Get excited! Only 3 or 4 days until you hear that there’s been a problem with the meeting next week! Or, they make the meeting and the bank tells them to go add something, the team says “sure, this will only take us 2 weeks”, code for 2 years, KY B continues the FB thing, keeping investors informed so R & B dont have to talk to the angels and aren’t on the line for anything said, “who said that?”, pssst! there’s a company interested but dont want to do that, not enough $, waiting for the 2 digit billions, then all the 1 to 3 unit holders will be rich and can take care of their fams forever, at least l wont have to call and beg/threaten for $, will FNC carry the victory party?, hope so, gotta be a pretty eclectic grp, will there be grudges held from R&B to those pesky investors who had the audacity to ask for info?, damn them!, we cant understand why people are pissed?, why cant they be nice investors and just let us do our thing?, why do they keep holding us to what we said?, how would they know what it takes for this?, my gosh we’ve given them high level news letters, lets just get this to the bank then we can go dark on them, what will we do when they start calling?
February 16th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
@ PromiseMaker
That’s good stuff.
The next week to 10 days will prove what I’ve said all along. I DON’T BELIEVE IN EUCLID.
Never have. Never will.
There will be NO payday. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
As someone before me said, “& fact is there are a lot of gullible people out there that think something IS going to happen on the 23rd of this month.”
And it IS just “oh so sad”
February 17th, 2010 at 5:36 am
Speaking of “unit holders”
wouldn’t it be interesting to know how many individuals out there own a “unit” ??
wonder all ya want, but that is some information that will never be made available
February 17th, 2010 at 7:31 am
Don’t they have a meeting? Why all the pre-negative comments? I say at least let them prove you right before lambasting them.
Earl, why would they continue with the 56K modem stuff back then when they, like you saw there was no future?
AND, Allan, you’re an idiot!
February 17th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
8th st. You must be a moron because nobody could be that obtuse. So you must be the idiot. What I said was that 10 years ago ED told us they could send a full length movie over a 56K modem. If they actually could do that, they were way ahead of the curve. Here it is 10 years later and we can now watch a full length movie over the internet without ED. Now what can they do that is way ahead of the curve? Nobody is lambasting them, we have all heard this before, not once, not twice, but at least a couple of dozen times to be conservative. What can ED do now that makes it special, revolutionary, evolutionary? I have heard that they have been building value. Ten years later they are still saying that it is worth what they quoted when I first invested oh so many years ago. So either you are a company principle, a company shill, or a newbie who doesn’t know shit. You are right let them prove themselves to be what they really are. We shall see. Up to this point I have seen nothing.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:54 am
Mark,
Thanks for deleting Alan’s posts. Any way to prevent his BS?
February 19th, 2010 at 7:24 am
“Now what can they do that is way ahead of the curve?”
SERIOUSLY !!
Anybody ???
February 19th, 2010 at 10:36 am
The End Says:
February 19th, 2010 at 7:24 am
“Now what can they do that is way ahead of the curve?”
——————————————————
And the answer is nothing. I am cleaning up my hard drive and deleting unneeded and/or duplicate files.
I am down to 121GBs of data on a 300GB drive, now why would I need to buy thier software?
Today, with most new computers the situation is the same. The machines come with more hard drive space than the users need.
For the percentage that do need more space, 1.5TB drives are COTS hardware now-a-days, and even big drives are available to those who really need them.
And it is already available for less cost to buy that hardware than what Euclid claims they will sell their compression software for.
So where is this money for compression going to come from?
Notice how all the Euclid supporters can post lots of messages, but after all this time they still can’t point out any markets that are willing to pay out such big bucks?
No market, no money, as simple as that.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:03 am
@DoneYet:
>Thanks for deleting Alan’s posts.
>Any way to prevent his BS?
Alan knows that I will delete any posts where he talks about his crazy schemes and how he needs funding in order to make it happen. (On the basis that these are off topic.)
I won’t delete anything he says that is sensible or on-topic. But for some reason he is compelled to continue trolling with the same old junk.
Alan seems to think he is a pretty clever guy, but I don’t think he has ever posted a concrete idea on this board that makes sense. He has not made any useful contribution - ever as far as I can tell.
Typically, he’ll say something like:
And I mean, who needs that?
After all, we have that big meeting coming up in four days, we need to concentrate on putting all those 0’s down on that big check coming our way!
- Mark
February 19th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Earl, ED looks like a small company to me, I think that over the course of 10 years, at most they could have spent just a few millions.
If they had what they pretend to have, and if they were to sell it for “only” 50 or 100 millions, I believe it would still be a very good return for the investors.
But of course, you could also add…
No product, no money, as simple as that.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:22 am
@Maloeran:
From what I have heard about their executive salaries, I think the company almost has to have a burn rate > $1M/year. I would not be surprised to have the books show total expenses of $10M-$20M in 10 years.
Note that all investors in the company should know what the compensation is for key employees - but they don’t. If they did the stockholder anger would be a lot stronger than it is right now.
One more reason ED was smart to avoid triggering public status by making their investors buy through LLCs.
- Mark
February 19th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Maloeran Says:
February 19th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Earl, ED looks like a small company to me, …….
If they had what they pretend to have, and if they were to sell it for “only” 50 or 100 millions, I believe it would still be a very good return for the investors.
The problem with above is that none of the investors who post here can tell you what percentage of the company they own, nor can they tell you how many shares the directors have vote for themselves.
Despite the fact that the angel/outside investors may have poured millions into this company, the methods used to avoid SEC monitoring means the directors could vote themselves 99 preferred shares for every share an outside investor has paid for. Meaning if they can scam someone into paying $100 million for this company the insiders (all 5 of them?) walks away with $99 million and all the outside investors get to split $1 million X number of ways.
AND IT IS ALL LEGAL! You can’t touch them if they do such a thing.
There is a reason why the SEC exists.
There are lots of reasons not to invest in a non-SEC reporting company if they don’t put the right details down on paper, and refuse to give you internal details about where the money is going.
Go ahead. Try and find one single investor in Euclid who can tell you what PERCENTAGE of the company they own, or at-least what the PERCENTAGE of the LLC they invested thru owns of Euclid and in turn what PERCENTAGE of that LLC that they own.
You can’t, because they don’t know themselves, leaving themselves open to being scam legally.
PS. Don’t forget Hollywood Accounting as well (Google it).
February 19th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Funny thing is,
Mark Nelson may be doing me a bit of a favour, much as I dissaprove of the argument behind his censorship (my posts ARE on topic, they simply defy “orthodox-thinking” about data-compression perhaps), and of censorship in general, I wouldn’t want to tell too much when I apparently have a saleable discovery.
One day someone will be smart enough to invest in me.
Quoting:
“@DoneYet:
>Thanks for deleting Alan’s posts.
>Any way to prevent his BS?”
You do not have sufficient information (to quote HAL from the movie “2001 A Space Odyssey”) to reach that conclusion, I could say
Quote: “Alan knows that I will delete any posts where he talks about his crazy schemes and how he needs funding in order to make it happen. (On the basis that these are off topic.)”
My post, that I had apparently discovered how to send “streaming video” on a limited e.g. 56K modem, was I thought on the topic of: someone claiming that no-one had ever done this. Looks like maybe (thanks to my concept) it is possible to now be able to achieve this.
Quote: “I won’t delete anything he says that is sensible or on-topic. But for some reason he is compelled to continue trolling with the same old junk.”
I am not troling, I am “stirring” in-so-far-as I am occasionally “rocking the boat” of the apparent “religious-like conviction” people sem to have about what is achievable today in “data compression”. I am strongly motivated by having to endure some of the most appalling living conditions of any person in my age group in my country, to remind people that I am tired of “living in a metaphorical sardine-can” while investors fret over the 6 million they put into Euclid Discoveries while I can cover them with more wealth than they dare dream of (possibly) if my technology was successful and rolled out.
So am I venting my frustration at current impoverishment while swimming in massive intellectual property potential rewards looking for someone to connect the dots…?
Quote:
“Alan seems to think he is a pretty clever guy, but I don’t think he has ever posted a concrete idea on this board that makes sense. He has not made any useful contribution - ever as far as I can tell.”
(Dodgy understood that you can compress data by storing it in “an engine” that recreates the data via a process. )
Obviously I cannot reveal technical detail of something that may be patentable.
Quote:
“Typically, he’ll say something like:
It took hundreds of years to solve Fermat’s last theorem, but if you look at it as an 11-dimensional string theory problem, the answer is right there! I figured it out in just a few minutes but haven’t written it down yet. Hint: x^2 + y^2 exhibits quantum entanglement!
And I mean, who needs that?”
So you think I”M clever? You apparently know more than you think!
Comedy allowed here (with serious thrown in) (?)
“Typical;” I hear you think (my comment) ? (Quote: Rhys Darby T.V. ad))
Imagine if you discovered the wheel, and all around you people are struggling carrying heavy loads that they could put on say a horse-drawn carriage; but you are very uncomfortable re: your housing/income situation and you know that there is a market for wheels if only you could get a business deal sorted…
Quote:
“After all, we have that big meeting coming up in four days, we need to concentrate on putting all those 0’s down on that big check coming our way!”
Mark, I look forward to the day I can tell you the other way of looking at the statements you made….
You can delete this- who cares/ I care that i am painfully poor, yet ridiculously rich (in breathtaking discovery; time for the world and me to do some proper orthodox business dealing….???)
February 20th, 2010 at 6:57 am
Mark, Maloeran, Earl, and all the other so called compression, business, and Euclid experts. Still can’t understand your interest and focus on such a little company, but whatever?
As an investor, I know exactly what percentage of the company I have and which markets we will play in. Why would anybody be compelled to share company information with you boys? What would the benefit be? To try and shut up a few people who think in traditional/”old school” ways?
February 20th, 2010 at 10:22 am
@ NoTell’n
LITTLE COMPANY HUH? HOW MANY BILLIONS DID THE TWO R’S & THEIR FLUNKIES SAY THEY WERE GOING TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT FOR? PERHAPS THAT IS SMALL TO YOU, BUT NOT THE AVERAGE INVESTOR.
YOU REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT % YOU HAVE. FURTHER, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHICH MARKETS ARE BEING PLAYED IN.
HOW ABOUT THIS, NO TELL’N…WE DON’T WANT DETAILS, BUT TELL US ABOUT THE BIG MEETIN’ NEXT WEEK AFTER IT HAPPENS.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
@ Do Tell
HOW MANY BILLIONS DID THE TWO R’S & THEIR FLUNKIES SAY THEY WERE GOING TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT FOR?
Facebook bill the company appointed mouthpiece has actually told people he thinks double digit billions. He and alan both have something in common. CLUELESS.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
That is the most ludicrous thing I have heard, and I have heard a lot of BS in my many years as an “investor”.
February 21st, 2010 at 10:53 am
NoTell’n, I don’t have any particular interest in ED.
Simply put, it’s all visibly a scam to me, and it bothers me that people have been abused and are still being deceived. I’m not kind of person to stay silent when faced with such a situation.
Of course, don’t let it influence your decisions! Go ahead and feel free to keep on pouring money all you want on ED.
February 21st, 2010 at 8:16 pm
36 hours, can hardly wait.
Wild with anticipation.
What will it be?
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:04 am
News Alert! News Alert!
Big happenings in 24 hrs. Unfortunately, my “BS Meter” is going off like crazy! Will it really happen this time? Will they tell the angels what really happened or will this be used to bring up the hype an raise more $$? That has been the trend over the years. Great news like we’re almost done - bring in new investors - get money - months later, nothing. This could be one of their most brilliant ploys yet. “Bank is REALLY excited, told us we need 1 more tweak, it’ll only take 3 days”. That means 3 years in euclid speak.
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:46 am
A number of posters have indicated that ED’s management has declared that they will “go dark” once negotiations with the bank begin.
If this is true, all the people expecting to hear exciting news soon my be disappointed.
The obvious question is whether this is a strategic move to tightly control negotiations or simply the logical extension of the ongoing mushroom management of the investors.
In any case, those licking their chops in hopes of a schadenfreude moment are undoubtedly going to be disappointed. There will be no bad news - at worst there will be no news.
The first hint of bad news will be when there are rumors of additional shares being sold to keep the payroll going for a few more years.
- Mark
February 22nd, 2010 at 12:05 pm
RIGHT ON THE MONEY AGAIN MARK.
IT’S CALLED MUSHROOM MANAGEMENT FOR A REASON.
THE POOR, POOR SAPS THAT BELIEVE THERE IS GOING TO BE A PAYDAY.
EVERYONE HAS BEEN “IN THE DARK” WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LITTLE BS LETTERS & FEW TEXT MESSAGES THAT REALLY, REALLY NEVER SAY ANYTHING.
I DON’T BELIEVE IN EUCLID IF YA HAVEN’T FIGURED THAT OUT BY NOW.
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Be ready for imminent POPPAGE!!!
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:53 pm
I hope you are talking about poppage of cork as per celebration rather than a poppage of the bubble. I need some good news.
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Looks like the meeting day has come and gone with no word from ED. Is it just me or is anybody else not at all surprised that we’ve heard NOTHING!!!!!
February 24th, 2010 at 7:56 am
Hopeful - you a unit holder or a part of an LLC? Info is out there, go get it. You should stop living on this blog and let this thing finish up on it’s own merits. This blog helps no one and has not sped up development or will it affect the ultimate sale based on the comments from posters and all it does is feed doubt into folks connected to the company by so-called experts who really know nothing. In the end, if it makes you feel better, go ahead but the real answers lie within the “community” you are associated with, not on some blog.
February 24th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@ 8th Street
IF INFO ON THIS BLOG “will it affect the ultimate sale” THEN WHY ARE YOU CONCERNED WITH THIS BLOG?
I THINK I KNOW WHY. IT’S BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL IT HAS TO EFFECT FUTURE FUND RAISING EFFORTS FOR ED.
HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.
February 24th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
So 8th Street, if the info is out there, where is it?
Post a URL, a phone number, company report, a trade rag or magazine where this info is available! Bet you can’t find anything.
Claiming the info is out there seem to be of the same vein as the claim about the compressor - you claim it exists but supply no proof of it existing.
Again, if the info is out there - WHERE IS IT?
February 24th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
“where is it?”- is this not what the experts asked re: the data PJW suposedly compressed?
I think know where it was
fantastic
February 24th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
THIS JUST IN:
“ED HAS BEGUN THE OFFICIAL SALES PROCESS.”
I’m really glad that info on this blog will NOT “affect the ultimate sale” as 8th Street said.
February 25th, 2010 at 6:42 am
What’s wrong with you people, they are actively selling the tech? Isn’t that what everyone wanted? What they will get is certainly up for debate, but it doesn’t matter either. If anyone on this blog really thinks that their comments affect an ultimate buyer’s position, you think a lot of yourself. Even ED itself was not affected. So go back into your “self importance” cave and let’s see what happens. It won’t be 2 weeks either.
The last laugh is out there and in sight!
February 25th, 2010 at 7:40 am
@ 8th Street
okay, nothing specific but give us a general idea of when the last laugh will be in sight?!?
we agree it won’t be in two weeks.
nor will it be in two months.
& i doubt it will be in two years.
just OUR opinion.
February 25th, 2010 at 7:49 am
Well, 8th Street, you can’t blame people for being cynical after hearing the same old story for years.
Sincerely, I hope you are right and that ED really has what they claim they have. As unlikely as it seems to me, I would be glad to be proved wrong.
February 25th, 2010 at 8:26 am
@ 8th Street
okay, nothing specific but give us a general idea of when the last laugh will be in sight?!?
February 25th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Yeah, right. And the check is in the mail.
Only one of two things will happen,
1) They will claim that sale that is worth billions did not go thru (and probably try to blame the postings form investors like the ones we have here who HAVE NO VOTING RIGHTS as the cause, so their posts matter on a sale do not make sense to me). It could be some other excuse, but the main thing people at this company seem to want is no questioning of their claims.
2) They found someone to scam who does have deep pockets (double digit millions?) but since there can be no such compressor I expect them to take the money and run before they demand their money back.
I don’t see the outside investors getting any real money no matter what happens. Don’t call me about making a sale or a contract of interest, call me when you see the money going into your bank account.
I expect that to be a very, very long wait.
February 25th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Not bad earl…not bad…
hey, what ever happened to……… ??????
anne marsden, head of marketing
steve hutchinson, executive strategist
charles pace, chief technologist
jeff roberts, director of engineering
john weiss, chief algorithmic mathematician
darin deforest, lead algorithmic software engineer
anne watelet, technical process manager
igor najfeld
anna gilbert
amit roy-chowdhury
renato pizzorni
nigel lee
jonathan sass
sunmie won
suzanne bauer
February 25th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I disagree with this comment: “….since there can be no such compressor….” if it claims that video data cannot be stored far more efficiently re: computation of available space to store it, than current off-the-shelf technology allows (at least, that is my impression).
February 25th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
after reading this thread, i went and read the press releases, then i read the patents, and then read through the H.264 and H.265 sites
the company seems to have been optimistic in the press releases, but it also has been careful to qualify their statements
the patents match what is described in the press releases
the press releases claim conservative results, that are in the same range of benefit as what the H.265 site claims
given that no one else talks about the press releases, the patents, nor the next video standard, i would assume that no one here is very well informed
the informed people must not be commenting
the other companies on this blog do not have the same assets that match the direction of H.265
also, the other companies on this blog are obviously scams, which have refused to present their technology for scrutiny. this company has reported presenting their technology to third parties on several occasions
food for thought
February 25th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
@ Alexandria
HERE’S SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
TEN YEARS OF LIES & BROKEN PROMISES.
February 25th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
@Alexandria:
H.265 of course does not exist - you are talking about something that is currently just being talked about. It has some pretty reasonable goals that should be achievable, and with increases in computing power will be a useful upgrade to H.264.
But the promises of Euclid were far from modest. Back in 2005, we were told that they had a codec that was *right then* compressing 4-15 times better than MPEG-4. Even four times better compression at the time would be somewhat impressive, and fifteen would be really awesome.
In 2010, it’s less impressive, and in five more years, H.265 might achieve the 4x number.
Much of the problem is that many investors were told that the technology was going to generate a huge financial windfall - a supposition that just doesn’t bear up under the facts.
Given what you are saying, that Euclid’s promises are no more than what is being proposed for H.265, what would you say the value of the company is?
- Mark
February 25th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
the H.265 site exists, there are descriptions of the proposed techniques that would be added, and there are referenced papers that show results on _certain videos_
the H.265 site does not expect 4x, they expect less, much less
the press release i found says: Euclid Discoveries, a video compression firm, announced that its technology has achieved compression ratios of 15,168 to 1 for certain videos.
why say _certain videos_ if you mean every video?
seems like this was qualified correctly
February 26th, 2010 at 3:12 am
Alexandria, did you actually read the patents? Through the pointless techno-babble, did you understand them?
Within their long list of little variations to mpeg4 encoding, it is possible that there may be a few things of value, perhaps able to provide a few extra percents over plain h264.
But 460%? Forget it. There is no way the variations described in the patents will get anywhere near that.
February 26th, 2010 at 5:57 am
@Alexandria:
Just to clarify:
4X refers to the improvement over MPEG-4 (what was being called MPEG-4 in the early part of the 2000s.) I don’t think they were referring to what is now called MPEG-4 Part 10 or MPEG-4 AVC, H.264.
I do think it is reasonable to suggest that H.265 will be able to produce a 4X improvement over MPEG-4. They suggest that they want to get a 2X improvement over H.264, so it all adds up.
- Mark
February 26th, 2010 at 7:31 am
Totally loving the comments from the gang here! They show you are a little nervous about ED actually taking the next step. Would a bank like ED has partnered with go forward if they had nothing or was worth just a few dollars? Probably not. How much of the negotiations are public when companies like MS or Cisco merge or make an acquisition? But you expect this to be different and continue to pound away with your doubt and negativity.
When and who will have the last laugh is still out there and I hope it is the principles, development team, and the investors! But even experts in compression, angel investing, and general business dealings like yourselves can’t call how long the selling phase might take. I suspect it won’t be to long, a few months, but who knows???? Bottom line they are there and I think you are upset because they made it there. Oh what will all you experts do when this is over?
@ ED Staff, nice post, get current. You are showing your ignorance!
All for now folks! Keep the posts coming, good stuff!
February 26th, 2010 at 8:03 am
@8th Street:
You are right about one thing, acquisition negotiations are certainly done with full confidentiality, 99% of the time. However, word has been in the past that this was going to be an auction, which generally is not done privately.
As for “would a bank get involved if this wasn’t real”, that doesn’t mean much. We have no idea what is actually going on with the bank. They may have no relationship at all. Who knows? Or they may just be collecting retainer fees from ED, hoping that someday something happens.
Finally “I think you are upset because they made it there.” Two things about this. One, they haven’t made it anywhere. Right now the company is *exactly* in the same place they said they were in 2005. I don’t call that “making it there.”
Second, if the company does have useful technology, and investors get back some of their money, I won’t be upset, I’ll be thrilled. These people invested in good faith, although not wisely, and don’t deserve the hammering that I expect to eventually come their way.
Even just breaking even after 10 years would be better than a total wipeout.
About the only thing that can really be assumed in all this is that the management team has made millions.
- Mark
February 26th, 2010 at 8:24 am
Mark, you make some statements with no facts to back them?
“We have no idea what is actually going on with the bank”. That was a true statement! Why would you?
“they haven’t made it anywhere. Right now the company is *exactly* in the same place they said they were in 2005″.
You are wrong! It’s totally different. Doesn’t guarantee success, but different.
“About the only thing that can really be assumed in all this is that the management team has made millions”. Another assumption with no facts to back it?
Keep’em comming! Maloeran? Truth?
February 26th, 2010 at 9:03 am
Oh by the way, while you continue to bring up the “millions” in compensation, living in luxury while the investors scrape along, don’t forget about the jet! You know, the ED principle, jet setting around the world all these years while the angels ate crackers and peanut butter. I wonder whether the team flew to the meeting this week on the jet? Did they serve premium alcohol or just the rot gut. Were they eating burgers or filet? Damn those fat cats!!! Living the high life on the angel’s dime. Where’s the fairness in all of it?
February 26th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Whatever, 8th Street. Keep spreading the same lies as you have for the past 10 years. Since you still manage to raise funds, it looks like there still are people gullible or desperate enough to believe them.
February 26th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Guys and Gals, as you know I have been one of the more critical of what has been going on.
I hesitate to let myself even become positive for fear of getting shot down again.
With that caveat it appears they are moving in a very positive direction.
Let’s all sit back and give them a little more time to sink or swim.
February 26th, 2010 at 11:57 am
@8th Street:
Stockholders should know exactly what executive compensation is, so it would be easy to disprove my statement. (At least for a company that is forthcoming with its stockholders.) I have been told that the two men at the top are drawing annual salaries of just under $400K. I do not have copies of W-2 forms to prove that, it is just an assertion.
However, it would seem very unlikely that the total take from just the top two guys is not in the millions. Do you suppose that they started this thing up so they could draw a 5-figure paycheck? Doubt it.
- Mark
February 27th, 2010 at 6:30 am
“I have been told”. Mark, that’s the problem here, you’ve been told or you have heard, or whatever? Do any of your statements come from actual fact? Maloeran, you too. Earl? Yeah, you can go back and nail the company on web site statements made years ago. Do you really think the current tech is the same?
Like Bellie said, good things are finally happening and NOBODY wants to talk about the same old stuff, ie executive salaries and jets.
You said you’d be happy if the investors came out whole. Why not “cheer” for a while? It’s way more fun!
February 27th, 2010 at 7:12 am
8th, don’t put words in my mouth I said “it APPEARS they are moving in a very positive direction. We have all gone down this road before. That’s why I said to give them a little more time.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:56 am
@8th street:
>Why not “cheer” for a while? It’s way more fun!
There are lots of companies that make you want to cheer for them. These are companies that have great products, are open, talk to the public, and talk to their investors.
Remember when Google had their IPO? These guys were making billions, but everyone seemed to love them. Look at the reasons why and you see a lot of obvious differences.
Nobody is going to cheer for a company like ED - they are doing all the wrong things. Sorry, that’s the way it is. Even if they are not truly evil, they give every appearance of it, plus lots of other bad attributes.
We do this every year, and every year somebody says, okay, it looks like we are finally moving forward, let’s give the guys a break. But there is no reason to think this is going to be any different.
And the foolish buyers of LLC shares continue to get dragged along on hopes that someday they will get some kind of payback.
- Mark
February 27th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
The other thing it is not just Euclid or NetZero or half a dozen previous compression scams that have come and gone.
These posts serve as a warning to others if yet another super-compression scam company comes along (and one will sooner or later), or if this company goes after more new investors.
Anyone in the future who does a Google search on the next ‘bright’, ’sure to make billions’ super-compressor will find threads like these that will hopefully serve as a warning before they blindly invest their money.
—————————————————
Last Tuesday I got a voucher in the mail claiming I won a free Bahamas cruise for two. A quick google search found threads pointing out the where in the hidden fine print that that will be port/fuel/extra charges that quickly turned a free cruise into a $600+ cruise - plus with lower quality rooms and boat - plus the real gotta — You have to sit thru a time share sales meeting.
Ten years ago, I would had to spend all day doing the research to find out it was a scam - I bet a lot of people don’t bother and just let greed take over.
Present day it took less than 10 minutes to find out it was a scam.
—————————————————-
This is going to make it very hard on Euclid the next time they want to raise money. Guess who’s site comes up first when you use Google? :)
February 27th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Quoting Earl:
‘…before they blindly invest their money.’
simple answer; invest money with your eyes wide open.
For example, there exists an amateur scientist, who’s name I am not allowed by the censor here on this website to say to you, but who could be the one who writes this, (and “could be” is rather misleading, but given I would be censored for saying exactly, it is rather difficult!); who claims to have apparently made brilliant theoretical discoveries re: so-called “data-compression”, or perhaps more precisely “space-computation”; and while these discoveries are only in the form of theoretical procedures, not yet tested in a computer task situation, they appear to be the real thing to said amateur scientist.
Further, there is a very close connection to these apparent discoveries, and apparent breakthroughs in other areas, including in the area of how to detect pre-earthquake patterns.
Here is one clue: to create an earthquake, you need to have “cohesion”- i.e. a large block that holds together”, so it can shift “all at once’ (i.e. so it can cause a (sudden “jolt”).
Euclid Discoveries have correctly identified “objectivity” as a key aspect of extreme data storage; data is not “random” (one can argue “there is no such thing as “random”); data is always ABOUT something, or it would not be data. If it is ABOUT something, then it “hangs together (in some way)”.
Hence it coheres.
Want to know more?
Why not persuade someone to help those who are in earthquake-prone regions, and those who want high quality data storage, to do something about assisting said amateur scientist to escape from poor living situation.
Eyes wide open: investors could only support, or sponsors sponsor, on signing a non-disclosure docuument then seeing exactly what the alleged discoveries are for themselves. The only risk then is that they overlook some detail, or the inventor made a mistake, and that the evaluator of the invention doesn’t see the mistake. If there is no mistake, then there is no mistake.
Thank you
February 27th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Mark & Earl, true champions of the average investor! Way to go boys; you two are true heros. Euclid evil???? Why, because they brushed you back a few years ago as a two-bit programmer? Earl, nice detective work on the cruise thing. Unfortunately, neither of you have any facts to prove any of your comments about ED. Sit back boys and watch the show!
February 27th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
REF: “it looks like we are finally moving forward, let’s give the guys a break.”
There is no reason to think this is going to be any different.
Let me repeat that for you 8th Street…”THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE ANY DIFFERENT!!”
if there is, 8th Street, please share.
waiting…
February 27th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Companies that want you to sit back and be happy:
Bre-x: Gold company who turned out to have no gold.
Enron: Created power shortage by brides to turn off generating power plants.
Bernard Madoff: Just trust him with your money and he will make you rich. How many billions can still not be found?
So many people just want you money and then say, “Trust Me, Be Happy”. Yea, sure.
February 27th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Just math 8th Street, just simple math.
On the other hand it has been ten(10) years and not a single investor has made any money yet.
And I notice you still have not named a single industry that will pay big money for this compression. And big money by Euclid’s own claims is in the billions.
Well name one, can’t can you. :)
February 27th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Call this number, 978-369-8303 & you will get answers to all your questions.
February 27th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
I can understand why 8th St would want to turn the talk away from executive compensation - knowing that a couple of guys have made millions off this deal has got to really rankle most of the investors.
And it’s easy enough to do it by insult and bombast when you’re hiding behind a pseudonym. (Why is it that no Euclid supporter is *ever* willing to use their real name?)
If anyone can come up with a reason why my range of $4M-$10M executive compensation is out of line, by all means do so. I think even the most casual analysis will show that those millions have gone out of the investor’s checkbooks and into Wingard’s and Werner’s pockets. Sorry if it offends you.
And again, if Euclid is an honest company, investors who are reading this should already have the exact number - just add up your annual financial reports.
If you don’t have that number, well, that is kind of a bad sign.
- Mark
February 27th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Boys, nobody is going to post company/tech details on this blog, no matter how much you egg them on. Why would they? To try to shut you guys up? Like I said before, I’m loving this! I truly believe it’s starting to drive you just a little crazy. :) :) :)
Good stuff is happening! What will the outcome be? Not exactly sure right now, but feeling real positive based on the info I know! Unfortunately, being outsiders and relying on heresay from disgruntled LLC members, you wouldn’t know to much, which is definitely evident in your posts.
You seem pretty focused on the executive compensation? Don’t forget Werner’s jet also!!!! With fuel costs, catering, and personnel costs thrown in, that’s quite a little perk for the boys! Those on-call pilots can be quite pricey too! When all is done, no one will be that concerned, except you of course.
“Nobody’s made any money yet”. Should they have? Start ups usually don’t pay dividends. Yes, it’s been 10 years and there’s been twists, turns, and delays along the way, but tell me honestly all you expert tech wizards, do all of your projects come in on time? Are your development paths ALWAYS linear and perfect?
Hang in there boys! The end is coming soon! My gut tells me there will be some “crow” to be eaten, and if it’s me, I’ll be the first to post it here and you can “I told you so” for days on end! Patience!!!!!!!!
February 27th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
What a load BS!
I did not ask for a company name, I ask what industry will pay billions - but you can’t answer that question because the truth is there isn’t any that will pay what Euclid claims their software is worth.
What good stuff? There not been a single sign of any real activity anywhere, this again makes you sound like a liar trying to talk up the company. You’re saying something is so does not make it real, and unlike you I am not trying to prevent investors from getting back their money.
Of-course, since it is a more logical explanation of where all the investor money went considering after ten years there is not even a working prototype to test.
No-one made money? Well the insiders sure know how to spend it and live off it! And mostly on things that have nothing to do with compression software.
Really, show me a single successful high tech startup company out there that did not have of a working demo of their software/process within five(5) years of incorporation? Come on, just one! Like all your other claims you can’t find even a single example.
That is the last thing I expect you to do, I have seen this type of thing plenty of time before in comp.compression and when the super-compressor fails the people who were hyping it up quickly vanish never to admit they were wrong. I expect no different from you.
By my standards anyone who wants to make bold claims (but not a whistle-blower that is different) but hides behind a handle will not have the guts to admit when they are wrong. I have been on the internet for over 30 years and have only seen it once where a person using a handle and makes the type of claims you post later admit to being wrong.
February 28th, 2010 at 7:20 am
when i hear about the “next round of funding”
I am going to scream at the top of my lungs to anyone who will listen my feelings on the product.
“I THINK IT’S FAKE!!”
So far 8th street, you haven’t said anything to make me change my mind.
Preventing others from investing money in a product that is never going to materialize is my goal.
February 28th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Earl, you are getting a little testy!
“There not been a single sign of any real activity anywhere”. There are MANY deals that are not done in a public forum! Ever heard of confidentiality agrmts/NDAs? Certainly a know-it-all, compression expert like yourself is familiar?
“after ten years there is not even a working prototype to test”. Do you know that for sure? Orrrrrrr, are you and you and your compadres relying on “others” for your unfactual comments?
I will DEFINITELY be on this blog the minute they close their doors! I will be your second one to admit my position was screwed up. At the same time, I would hope you will do the same!
February 28th, 2010 at 8:06 am
I randomly stumbled upon that article with many more comments from ED investors :
http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/2006/01/20/angel_investors_in_america.php
There were rumors that they were going to sell imminently… in 2005. That’s cute.
Some day, I expect to encounter another blog post filled with comments from new and frustrated ED investors, in 2015 or so.
February 28th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Maloeran, real good point! Let’s keep living in the past! 4 or 5 years ago? That’s good stuff and really pertinent today. Keep up the investigation, you’re really put’n it to them now!
February 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
If you have heard the exact same story for the past 4 or 5 years, I believe you have earned the right to be skeptical.
The story is that someone gets the right to buy a large group of units once it gets to the bank.
So if it is at the bank, and that someone buys units and it falls apart again no one will be surprised.
So are we really at the end stage or are we in fund raising mode?
Only time will tell.
8th? nobody is putting anything to anybody, just telling it the way it has been for 10 years. Your constant cheer leading is not fooling anybody.
Nobody believes anything until they see it for themselves. That’s what happens when things drag on for more than 10 years.
I am not convinced.
February 28th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Maloeran:
That link is a hoot to read, check out message 39 where the guy says it took 43 minutes for his daughter to download a show, then goes on how Euclid’s software will make it so much faster. Of-course the problem that is that today it only takes a minute or two to download so why pay Euclid a cent.
Message 59 is funnier, where another guy points out that Euclid claimed to be going to the bank in 2003!
Heck, the investors are not even get Caps and Globes anymore! :)
March 1st, 2010 at 6:25 am
hey, what ever happened to these people ??????
call 978-369-8303 to find out.
anne marsden, head of marketing
steve hutchinson, executive strategist
charles pace, chief technologist
jeff roberts, director of engineering
john weiss, chief algorithmic mathematician
darin deforest, lead algorithmic software engineer
anne watelet, technical process manager
igor najfeld
anna gilbert
amit roy-chowdhury
renato pizzorni
nigel lee
jonathan sass
sunmie won
suzanne bauer
Call this number, 978-369-8303 & you will get answers to ALL your questions about EUCLID.
March 1st, 2010 at 6:44 am
BLAST FROM THE PAST…
September 15, 2005 12:15 PM Ed Wood writes…
I understand that you are under the impression that Euclid Technologies will not be ready for the “auction” until early next year. I’m curious to why you hold that postion.
LET ME TRY TO ANSWER THAT FOR YOU ED…BECAUSE THIS ENTIRE OPERATION IS A SCAM…FIVE YEARS LATER, STILL HASN’T BEEN SOLD…BUT, THE BIG CATS KEEP GETTIN’ FAT
March 1st, 2010 at 6:53 am
Earl, you continue to put out great stuff! Do a search on gasoline. You’ll see that in the 60’s it was a quarter! Do you think the state of ED’s tech has stayed the same since? You and Maloeran must be busting a gut over this stuff and I urge you to continue. It’ll be even sweeter when this thing finishes.
This is my last post because there is no upside going back and forth with “experts” like yourselves. But you’ll hear back from me either way when things finish up.
March 1st, 2010 at 7:42 am
Goodbye 8th Street, we all know things will never “finish up” so that may take a while.
As I said, I don’t see any reason why things wouldn’t stay the way they are up to 2015 and further. Investors can keep pouring funds on ED to feed their dream of an hypothetical large payoff some day.
March 1st, 2010 at 8:35 am
Don’t see ED’s name here.
March 1st, 2010 at 8:42 am
Good-bye 8th Street,
of course you’ll still chime in under different names.
& reference “But you’ll hear back from me either way when things finish up.”
think you mean “IF” things finish up, & you know that will NEVER happen.
Good Night 8th Street…
March 1st, 2010 at 9:09 am
Fact, post #460 was pretty funny! Made me laugh out loud! Don’t mean to be a jerk here, but on your #464 post you get on 8th for not using his/her real name, but you don’t? Funny stuff though!
March 1st, 2010 at 10:48 am
Simple concept.
At bank, tell us at bank.
Broadcast so all investors know.
No further tech developement?
NP at meeting?
NP not at meeting?
I hear at bank, I hear 5B or more.
Immediately I think fund raising.
Wingard can put in newsletter, sign name, make it official.
Can be done easily without giving super state secrets.
What is official statement?
Not asking to post on this blog.
Asking for information other than a third or forth hand text messages from Bob.
Something wrong no official updates.
Updates from BW texts?
Person buying units because at bank, is not going to be happy after check clears.
March 1st, 2010 at 11:01 am
Just Askin:
I don’t know who is spreading the rumor with that number “5B”, but that is simply incredulous. Look at what Google paid for On2, and then try to figure out how a company with no sales, no track record, and no existing products could get a valuation 30 times higher.
I have to believe that anybody floating a rumor like that is doing so for one purpose only: deception.
- Mark
March 1st, 2010 at 11:06 am
To me it is simple, if a person uses a handle but tells me to use caution, do research, use Google, ask questions - I will listen to them, it is clear that such a person is trying to help me and gains nothing from such actions on my part.
If a person uses a handle but says, “Trust me your money is safe”, “Don’t ask questions or make waves”, “Just keep wait a little longer” then a red flag is raised in my mind since the person using said money could well be someone with all to gain if an investor does not demand their money back.
Please note 8th Street still can’t name a single industry to will pay out the type of money Euclid claims it’s software is worth. Why wait if the big payoff can’t happen?
And also follow up Ed Investor’s latest link, notice not a single deal talked about is even a billion dollars in size and most are a lot less. Why expect more for Euclid when it does not even have a demo program to show?
March 2nd, 2010 at 8:09 am
I can’t believe I’m posting, but I just couldn’t resist responding to the on-going MORONIC posts of the self-professed experts. I have said it, and will once more, I have answers to ALL of your questions, BUT AGAIN, why would ANYONE post them here? There are MANY who have your answers, you idiots! What’s the upside? None! I suspect that no matter what anybody says, you’ll bash their posts from your “I have blinders on” and “it can’t be done” perspective.
So, Mark, go back to your entry level Cisco programing pool and wait for your next break, Earl and Maloeran, not sure what your background is, but it can’t be that great as you seem strangely interested in this thing. I know, for the sake of future investors! WTF! Total BS! I have to say, you might want to do something a little more productive with your lives, “supermen”!!!
As I’ve said though, I DO love your ignorant posts. Because I come from a position of knowledge AND FACT, they provide much humor throughout the day! Keep up the great work!
Good times! See ya!
March 2nd, 2010 at 11:37 am
Poor guy just can’t live without us.
March 2nd, 2010 at 1:07 pm
KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL AID 8TH STREET
HOW THE SALE OF “YOUR” COMPANY GOING?
LOTS OF INTEREST IN THEIR “PRODUCT” ?
March 3rd, 2010 at 8:09 am
W.I.G.I.D.
Wanted in, glad I didn’t!
I’ve been watching this blog for years now with interest because I almost got in. It’s been a roller coaster for me, think’n I should’ve and then real happy I didn’t. I can’t imagine being an investor and being told so many times that it was going to be done an they would soon be rich. I know a few of the people in this and based on what they are being told by the company some very specific points of the current status. I think the people out here will find public information starting to come out about what they claim to have or have done. Not sure in what form or when.
I am now on the “wish I had” side. Not totally sure, but things seem different now. We’ll see?
March 3rd, 2010 at 11:30 am
You can delete this too at the same time, but this approach is also a standard tactic of con artists.
IE. If your con is not holding up, try and drag you accusers names thru the mud instead of proving them wrong.
Notice how 8th street switched to direct insults when s/he could not find a name of a single industry that would pay the sums Euclid claims their software is worth.
March 3rd, 2010 at 12:32 pm
I always thought Maloeran made pretty good sense ;-)
Anyway, Euclid is gonna be on CNN soon, right supporters?
Supporters ??
March 4th, 2010 at 5:17 am
Hear that?
Right.
Nothing.
ED said it would be very quiet right before the deal went down.
so, Shhhhh
(i’m wisphering now…only ten have past since the big meething)
March 4th, 2010 at 8:22 am
There are no investors that have fact and knowledge.
The only people with fact & knowledge are Bob, Richard, the tech staff.
All investors no matter how big or small get information exactly the same way. Personal calls, text messages, rumors, and innuendo.
There is no paper trail.
Until someone puts it to paper and signs their name, it remains unreliable.
Anyone saying anything else is deluded or trying to delude. Either way the message remains the same.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:02 am
Okay, Fact & Knowledge (or 8th Street)
WHAT IS THE MESSAGE??
March 5th, 2010 at 8:03 am
Fact, I wouldn’t say Fact & Knowledge is 8th St? 8th is a big cheerleader for the company and I didn’t get that from F & K. Though I do miss street’s posts!
March 5th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Shhhhh
Hear that?
Right.
Nothing.
ED has “gone dark” due to the pending sell.
Can’t wait…We Gonna Be RICH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 6th, 2010 at 4:55 am
@ DoneYet
say you miss 8th Street’s post?
yeah, i know what you mean. they were entertaining.
& if you are an ED angel, that entertainment on this forum is about all you will receive for your investment.
so, COME ON BACK, 8th Street with your wit & wisdom.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:57 am
Again Alan, Mark is deleting your posts because they are *OFF TOPIC*.
We know you claim to have developed infinite compression ( along with teleportation, time travel or whatever else ).
Again, your compression claims are mathematically impossible. And believe it or not, computers follow the laws of mathematics.
I’ll be blunt, but my guess is that your ignorance blinds you to the flaws of your reasoning. Furthermore you have no idea of the complexity of real compression algorithms. Any little trick with bits being applied recursively ( or, as you say, “in a loop” ) will *NOT* work. Any programmer here could pinpoint to you how your ideas won’t work, if you would stop believing for a moment that they are worth millions.
March 7th, 2010 at 6:50 am
@Alan:
As I’ve said so many times to you in private emails, you cannot use this blog as forum to ask for money. I will delete all messages (as I did just now) in which you suggest people should enter into licensing agreements with you.
- Mark
March 7th, 2010 at 9:22 am
And my reply to Alan is why are you so scared to posted in comp.compression where you can’t be censored?
The fact that you refuse to do so shows what type of person you really are.
March 7th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Mark, I apologise for my terms. The issue was one of natural justice; the idea of “right of reply” to answer what were regarded as misleading claims.
Somewhere I read it claimed that my claim of apparently discovering breakthroughs in data storage effciency were not available for being proved. They are available for being proved, but require non-discosure agreement. They were always expressed cautiously- as “apparent” breakthroughs (yet to be tested as a product). I just wanted to counter what appeared to be misleading assertions.
I already said I do not post at comp-compression because of barrier of terms and conditions to post there (I am the type of person who refuses to tell lies to participate in web-sites that I may want to participate in!), plus I don’t have to post there (I was on-topic here because I read about Near-Zero in the newspaper, wondered how such technology could work, figured out something, have looked at similar issues in the past (such as: another problem involving computing space that a company won an award for- I worked out (apparently) how to do what they were doing, and a easy alternative suitable for third-world countries) .
What is wrong with acknowledging that people who apparently make discoveries are looking for licensors or sponsors?
Maloeran:
I never claimed “infinite compression”, I claimed apparent discovery of method to store vast amounts of data in minimal space.
I also mentioned apparent possible breakthroughs in other areas including teleportation, but I did not say “time travel” (actually, the only way to “time travel” is to “compute space”- you cannot alter the past, but….. )
Regarding the “mathematically impossible” argument:
it doesn’t matter so much if they are, one just steps outside “mathematics” to solve this. “Mathematics” has been called “the science of pattern”. I tend to call it “categories”- to count oranges involves the category “orange”.
I call physics “the pattern of science:, or “logic”. Short cut to solving maths: use physics (logic). A short cut to solving “physics” is: “categories” .
I acknowledge that the “counting argument” looks difficult to deal with; but I found an apparent answer. I am not very computer-knowledgeable, I had forgotten that a “byte” is 256 something (combinations I read)
A computer is really just an adding machine, one way or another.
You cannot build a “space computer” with a “complex algorithm”. You need a simple algorithm, that may not even look like an algorithm at all.
Maloeran writes: “Any little trick with bits being applied recursively ( or, as you say, “in a loop” ) will *NOT* work”
May well be correct- because it already “works”.
This subject is not about things “working”, earthquakes do not “work” as such- they “un-work”- they jar
March 7th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
LOOKIE HERE FOLKS, WHAT SOMEBODY WROTE NEARLY “FOUR” YEARS AGO…GUESS THEY ARE “STILL” WAITING…WHAT DID THAT PRESS RELEASE SAY TINY? MORE MONEY PLEASE ????
TALK TO ‘R’ THIS EVENING…THAT IS SOOOO FUNNY…WISH I HAD A DIME FOR EVERY TIME I’VE HEARD SOMEBODY SAY THAT THEY’VE “TALKED TO ‘R’ “….TOO FREAKIN’ FUNNY
tiny Angel Says:
March 17th, 2006 at 6:27 pm
Georgia, hang in there. Talked to R this evening, Big press release is coming at some point in the next couple of weeks. All good things come to those who wait. Time will tell all.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
@PastBlast:
Tiny Angel was still pretty much a team player in 2006, but we don’t seem to hear too much from him these days. I wonder if he has lost the faith?
Of course, even if he has lost faith, what’s he going to say? From what I hear, anyone who makes even the slightest public complaint gets an instant call from The Enforcer, letting them know in no uncertain terms that dissent is not tolerated.
It’s really kind of sad… I wonder if the stockholders will ever wake up and realize that *they* are the owners of the company.
The first thing the stockholders should do is vote in a board of directors that will introduce the notion of accountability to management. That same new board of directors ought to immediately perform a technology audit so that all those poor uninformed stockholders can actually find out what they have and what it is worth.
Knowledge is power. The present management team knows that all too well, and as a result, makes sure that they are the ones with both.
- Mark
March 7th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
Alan, not going to waste time with your scamming lies. There are no terms or conditions to prevent posting to comp.compression. Show an URL to limit that could stop you posting. Can’t can you?
Mark, considering the number of units sold it should be no problem if they tried to take over the LLCs, may take a court order however.
They may not been shares sold to the investors but they can be shown to the courts that Euclid’s principles claimed them as if they were as good as stock shares. Courts do have a habit of support long term uses as if the use becomes that item. IE. Claim it is as good as stock shares for years (10+ now) then the courts will treat them as real shares.
Once they control those LLCs then directly control the stocks/shares Euclid follows, and thus control of Euclid unless the insiders have voted themselves extra stock.
And that in turn opens the internal records.
Fun to follow.
March 7th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
i entered comp.compression.com in Google search engine. The second listing gave a website that was part of Google groups.
This site had a “terms of service” type link:
http://groups.google.com/intl/en/googlegroups/terms_of_service3.html
The document is long and appears to be very demanding. They claim they have the right to change their terms etc. any time they want, with or wthout notice.
…-…
March 8th, 2010 at 6:39 am
So as always you are a dumb scammer.
Those are the terms of Google’s interface to Usenet, not the Usenet Group Comp.Compression - if you can’t understand something as simple as that why should we trust anything else you say.
Learn to use a search engine properly.
I tried it myself just to make sure it was not that hard to do, took me less than six(6) minutes to find another service to post to the same Usenet group without any terms of service.
Your actions show that you never pay attention to the fine details, and this is something that is very important in writing compression software.
Sloppy thinking like your`s will never produce working code. :)
March 8th, 2010 at 6:55 am
Hi Mark…
referencing comment, “From what I hear, anyone who makes even the slightest public complaint gets an instant call from The Enforcer, letting them know in no uncertain terms that dissent is not tolerated.”
What can they (ED big dogs) do about it, really?
An Enforcer can call call me anytime. I’ll let them know what time it is. Free country. Free speech.
Dissent not tolerated? What does that mean, exactly?
Thanks
March 8th, 2010 at 7:02 am
Now, can we drop the topic of Alan and his supposed world-changing discoveries? Seriously, it’s way off the topic and it makes a mess… I would vote to delete all of that stuff, including this post.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:32 am
@Riiight:
I’ve never received a call from The Enforcer, but I would imagine it goes something like this: “Have you checked the terms of your subscription agreement? The clause where you agree not to disclose proprietary company information? Looks like you’ve been doing just that, and under the terms of your agreement, you’re out and we keep your money. Sorry, chump.”
Now, most of us here know that this is no big deal, the shares are probably worthless. But if you’ve dumped $25K into an LLC, your heart is never going to let you really give up on that money. If somebody tells you they are going to take it away (even though it has already been spent on a 2004 club membership and some boat payments) you are going to feel a little antsy.
- Mark
March 8th, 2010 at 7:54 am
To Mark,
Thank you for your quick & accurate response. Me? I have no personal connections with ED, but have some relatives/friends in it. I feel so sorry for them. I’ve heard stories from people talking about them (ED big dogs) trying to encourage people to remain calm, not get excited at meetings & such, even offering units for their continued cooperation.
It’s like you said, them telling anyone, “and under the terms of your agreement, you’re out and we keep your money” is kinda funny, since they’ve done that already anyway.
I agree the shares or “units” are worthless.
What is it going to take to get this scam exposed for what it is? And I am asking this in a most sincere & serious way possible. I’d like to hear responses from several of the regulars following this blog.
March 8th, 2010 at 8:58 am
The clause where you agree not to disclose proprietary company information? Looks like you’ve been doing just that, and under the terms of your agreement, you’re out and we keep your money. Sorry, chump.”
pro·pri·e·tary
Something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal right of the inventor or maker; specifically : a drug (as a patent medicine) that is protected by secrecy, patent, or copyright against free competition as to name, product, composition, or process of manufacture.
“Bitching about the people who run the company and use your money and not properly keeping the investors informed.” Is not a breach of proprietary company information.
Good luck trying to win that in a federal court. I am hoping they have better things to do with their time an your money.
March 8th, 2010 at 9:29 am
@Riiight:
What would it take to get this exposed?
As I said, the best way to proceed would be for the shareholders to take control and perform a technology audit. At this point, the fundamental question of whether there is any fire to go with the smoke would be answered.
If it turns out that all the money being spent has essentially yielded nothing, the next steps are to order a full financial audit to find out what happened.
There are lots of exciting things that can result from that.
- Mark
March 8th, 2010 at 9:56 am
It’s my opinion that ALL the money IS being spent & the result HAVE yielded nothing (except paying exorbitant salaries to a few & providing lavish lifestyles)…
Of course, I could be wrong & ED hopefuls may hear something any day now from that bank meeting…
When was it ? February 23 ?
8th Street Oh 8th Street, wherefore art thou 8th Street?
March 8th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Mark, don`t they first need to take over the LLCs first to get control of the shares that in turn control Euclid.
March 8th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
@Earl:
Yes, presumably the LLCs hold the majority of the shares, and they would be the ones that would have to vote for the changes.
So the company was set up to make it a bit complicated and difficult to hold accountable for performance. Presuming that the LLC owners are all tame and friendly this theoretical shareholder revolt would have involve a couple of steps.
Of course, it could turn out that Richard and Robert hold a majority of the voting shares, couldn’t it? In which case this strategy is born to lose.
No Euclid shareholder has ever been brave enough to publicly post a breakdown of ownership. Either they don’t know or they are afraid of The Enforcer. i suspect the former, this company thrives on secrets, and this could be the biggest secret of all.
- Mark
March 8th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Mark, please delete posts 489 and 487, (483 possibly, though my reply is still here that answers that).
Earl makes false accusations in those posts. I am not a scammer and I do not lie- I have aparently discovered a possible breakthrough in the field of data storage. This discovery has not been fully tested, of course it could be in error, but I do not misrepresent ther situation. Then please delete this post. Thank you.
March 8th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
If they are then prove me wrong, everything I stated if based on your own statements. First you complain about censorship then start asking for it when I point out your mistakes.
March 8th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
So how did that meeting go on February 23rd?????
Ha, Ha, Ha, Hee, Hee, Hee, Har, Har
March 8th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Mark, delete away if you so wish.
March 8th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
COULDN’T RESIST
_____________________________________________________
Richard Wingard has figured out a way to fund cutting-edge technology with angel investors, and hold them in their investments for nearly 7 years.
Wingard runs Euclid Discoveries, which is working on an object-based video compression technology he says will deliver 10 times the performance of MPEG-4, enough to “turn your iPod into a DVD player.”
And he’s done it all with angel investors, who are best-known for backing only early-stage customers. Wingard has rejected the entreaties of venture capital firms, saying their time frames for pay-outs are too short. Yet he has succeeded in getting angels who will wait as much as 7 years for a private auction of his technology, and a distribution.
Want to know how he did it?
1.Communication — Both Wingard and his partner spend an incredible amount of time communicatiing with, and preparing communication for, the investors.
2.Validation — Wingard hired Charles River Associates (now known as CRA International) to validate his claims, and value his claims, before asking for new investments and higher valuations.
3.Patents — Wingard aggressively sought patents for his technology and now claims valid patents on video compression techniques he’s using dated as early as 2004.
4.Exit Strategy — Wingard has been clear with his investors from the beginning on exactly how and when they will get their money out, through a private auction of the technology, when it is ready for commercial deployment.
“There are more angels out there than in the past 5 years,” he concludes. “We’ve now got a very good model, about getting investors, about maintaining them through the long haul of R&D.”
This may be how U.S. R&D gets done in the future, so give Richard Wingard a hand.
__________________________________________________
YEAH, LET’S GIVE HIM A HAND
March 10th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Hello All,
I know how many units are outstanding, what unit holders paid/per unit, and what percentage of the company everyone has, including the principles.
I know the outcome of the meeting on the 23rd and am satisfied for now.
I know that most start ups would require an NDA/confidentiality agmt. No posters have broken it with their bitching.
I know of no enforcer.
March 10th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
InTheKnow & his ED buddys have some ocean front property in tennessee they’d love to sell ya…
March 10th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
@InTheKnow:
Good to finally hear from you, Richard.
:-)
March 10th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Funny Mark.
Reference InTheKnow saying, “am satisfied for now.”
Guess I would be too if I had all that investor money to spend.
Amazing how some people can sleep at night.
Hey all you Tenn & Kent ED supporters, how y’all feelin’ now?
Seriously.
March 10th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Plus: Noticed that too. If he is an insider then every single word he has said can be 100% true and the angels are still screwed out of their savings.
Notice he has said nothing about what PERCENTAGE of the units (and notice he says units not voting/preferred shares) is owned inside the company vs the outside investors.
In other words he has said NOTHING! Without numbers/percentages it is nothing but empty words to try to make investors feel good about their money loss without saying a single meaningful word.
March 11th, 2010 at 2:38 am
BREAKING NEWS:
Euclid Discoveries is “very close” to wrapping up this thing. Yes, it has been a long process, & we appreciate everyone’s understanding & cooperation.
Good things come to those who wait.
All the pieces of the puzzle will come together after just one more round of securing financial backing from potential investors. Please tell your friends about this once in a lifetime opportunity to “live the dream.”
March 11th, 2010 at 7:52 am
KnowTheIn: A first time poster but has all the latest inside info about Euclid?
Using the standard “Good things come to those who wait.” that shows up in so many posts by Euclid representatives.
Do I smell a sock-puppet from Euclid? I think so.
March 11th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Wow! Why all the hate? I was just trying to address poster’s statements, like, “No Euclid shareholder has ever been brave enough to publicly post a breakdown of ownership. Either they don’t know or they are afraid of The Enforcer”. I was just saying that I actually do know this information and ALL unit holders have the ability to know it (not LLC members. They should get their info from the heads of those).
Like it has been said many times, specifics about who owns units and how many, the outcome of the meeting, and other information, won’t be posted here. I don’t think it should be either. Do you?
Mark, you don’t own units do you? Does Riight or Plus? You said you were trying to protect future investors but your comments seem very personal and not towards that goal? I know you said that you had given the company an opportunity to meet with your employer but they didn’t do it. Are you still upset about that?
As its been said to, “Has any unit holder lost money”? Yet? I have money in it but I don’t consider it lost. Yet! At risk, a BIG yes. Has been from the start. Anybody who thought different (no matter what they were told) should not have gotten in, in the first place.
I’m sure everyone will come back with, “they lied”, “false promises”, “promised completion dates not met”, “lives of luxury”, “jets”, “scam”, “etc”, “etc”. They are still in the game and doors are still open. Things actually look promising, at this point. Billions, not too sure about that? Sure would be nice! But sellable, I think so. I actually think I will at least get my initial investment back. Not what I was hoping for, but much better than nothing!
I’ve come to realize, no cheerleaders will ever convince anyone to change their opinions about this whole thing. I just wanted to address certain statements that just are not true. Please don’t beat me up for it. Maybe you could share your personal experience rather than pounce on others for posting their thoughts and opinions? That’s what I was trying to do. Maybe not?
I’ve tried to not attack anyone and keep my position/opinion civil. In hopes everyone else will to. I’ve gone through the same frustrations over the years, but I can’t understand why people who claim to be a part of this are being so negative at least right now. They are doing what they said they’d do. At least right now. Shouldn’t we let them fail in this phase before we bury them? Or, does everyone think they are lying about this to? If so, I won’t continue to post because it won’t matter and everyone will have to wait until their doors actually close and they call it quits.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:33 am
A lot of meaningless wordage that says *NOTHING* about the who get what money, when and where.
YES, I THINK IT IS A GOOD THING TO POST THE NUMBERS HERE!
So where are the numbers? I see none from you either. You sound like a Euclid sock-puppet, you act like a Euclid sock-puppet and like always you give lame excuses about why you will not post any numbers like a Euclid sock-puppet.
Why no info about number of preferred/voting shares held by the insiders of Euclid?
Why no info about number of units held by the insiders of Euclid?
Why no info about number of units held by the outside investors of Euclid?
Revealing these number has nothing to do with selling a companies IP, but they sure tell investors what their expected ROI from any particular size of sale.
I notice you will not even state what percentage of any sale will go to the outside investors, is it 50%, or maybe 10%, heck maybe it is 1%?
Nothing coming out of Euclid has ever been said that was a *FIRM* statement of the ROI.
March 11th, 2010 at 9:40 am
InTheKnow Says:
March 11th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Wow! Why all the hate?
What hate? I posted the truth. IE you have never posted here before yet you use EXCACTLY the same terms that Euclid representatives use. Since when has stating the truth has become hate?
*********************
I was just trying to address poster’s statements, like, “No Euclid shareholder has ever been brave enough to publicly post a breakdown of ownership. Either they don’t know or they are afraid of The Enforcer”. I was just saying that I actually do know this information and ALL unit holders have the ability to know it (not LLC members. They should get their info from the heads of those).
Well you have a strange way of addressing the questions since you refuse to post numbers yourself. And you are saying in that above that only insiders have the info. That is the complainant! Why not answer the question instead of try to dodge the issues?
*********************
Like it has been said many times, specifics about who owns units and how many, the outcome of the meeting, and other information, won’t be posted here. I don’t think it should be either. Do you?
Yes, I do! Why not, and try to give a reason that makes sense not just ‘BECAUSE’.
*********************
Mark, you don’t own units do you?
Attacking the messager instead answer the questions asked, now that is low.
Does Riight or Plus?
Still attacking without posting any facts I see.
**********************
You said you were trying to protect future investors but your comments seem very personal and not towards that goal?
Investors? WTF! It is personal, this is my hobby you are screwing, so it is personal. Live with it.
**********************
I know you said that you had given the company an opportunity to meet with your employer but they didn’t do it. Are you still upset about that?
That is Mark’s concern not mine, but you are still messing with my hobby.
***********************
As its been said to, “Has any unit holder lost money”? Yet? I have money in it but I don’t consider it lost. Yet! At risk, a BIG yes. Has been from the start. Anybody who thought different (no matter what they were told) should not have gotten in, in the first place.
Of-course they have lost money, do they have it to spend? NO!
Is it in a bank account they can access? NO!
Can they cash out their units? NO!
So yes, they have lost their money and there is not a single sign of they ever getting it back.
***********************
I’m sure everyone will come back with, “they lied”, “false promises”, “promised completion dates not met”, “lives of luxury”, “jets”, “scam”, “etc”, “etc”. They are still in the game and doors are still open. Things actually look promising, at this point. Billions, not too sure about that? Sure would be nice! But sellable, I think so. I actually think I will at least get my initial investment back. Not what I was hoping for, but much better than nothing!
What has the doors being open got to with anything? THEY LIED as simple as that. The posts over ten years of missed delivery/banking/closing dates proves that.
***********************
I’ve come to realize, no cheerleaders will ever convince anyone to change their opinions about this whole thing. I just wanted to address certain statements that just are not true. Please don’t beat me up for it. Maybe you could share your personal experience rather than pounce on others for posting their thoughts and opinions? That’s what I was trying to do. Maybe not?
So you think being told the truth is beating you up? Don’t ever join a debating team, it could put you in the hospital. :) And, never, never get in an argument with a Jamaican or Italian MAMA, you just end up in a coma. :) :) :)
And my personal experience over that last two decades is every single compression company that comes along but can’t deliver a working public demo within a year *ALWAYS NEVER* pays it’s outside investors back. If I am wrong - name one, it sure is not Euclid as it has not paid any of it’s outside investors.
***********************
I’ve tried to not attack anyone and keep my position/opinion civil. In hopes everyone else will to. I’ve gone through the same frustrations over the years, but I can’t understand why people who claim to be a part of this are being so negative at least right now. They are doing what they said they’d do. At least right now. Shouldn’t we let them fail in this phase before we bury them? Or, does everyone think they are lying about this to? If so, I won’t continue to post because it won’t matter and everyone will have to wait until their doors actually close and they call it quits.
Sound like a bunch of excuses to me, “wait a little, trust me” where have I heard this before? Oh yea, just about every compression scam that has come along in the past.
***********************
Come back when you have real numbers to post, instead of feelie goodie posts.
March 11th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Earl, you are an angry man! This is your hobby? Don’t get it? Is your hobby to hang out on blogs and comment on things you know nothing about? What a lonely life!
As I said, any post will be torn apart by people who know nothing and if “you” are an investor and unit holder, that is your fault! So, like others before who tried to say that things aren’t the way you portray them, good bye!
Earl, if this is your hobby, what a crap world you live in! I feel sorry for you. Keep up the negativity and cause for the future investors.
March 11th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Blah, blah, blah. Still no numbers.
Standard sock-puppet method, attack the messenger instead of answering the questions.
And learn to read too, or are you trying to avoid admitting what my true hobby is and my reasons for posting here?
Act like a sock-puppet, get treated like one.
March 11th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
@InTheKnow, I’ve chosen to remain on the fence pending the outcome of events which we may or may not see. If you do know, why not tell the numbers. If what you’ve said is true, no “enforcer”(whooooohoo) you can state the numbers without getting your hand slapped. I can see Earl Colby Pottinger’s concern/escalating attitude over something he enjoys.. which is not the reading of these posts. As for both Mark and ECP, I will continue to say I’ve learned a lot from them over the time I’ve been reading posts.I don’t always agree with their point of view. Their info, technical related or investment related, has been pretty good thus far and has checked out because they DO TELL WHERE THEY GET THEIR FACTS. Now, about those numbers…..
March 12th, 2010 at 3:32 am
@ Blue
Why? Why state any numbers here on this post?
You want answers? You think you are entitled to answers? You want the truth?
Call ED yourself…Call this number, 978-369-8303
March 12th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Why is everyone so focused on units, % of ownership, inside vs outside? ED is a private company and it’s not about getting backlash from anyone. Go ask any private company to open their books. How would that go over? I am a unit holder and AM satisfied with my ownership position and have known the specifics (units outstanding, principle’s unit position, outsider’s percentage, etc) throughout. It seems like there are many others like me but, only you, are the ones concerned?
Pick a privately held company, give them a call, and see if they’ll provide you with the type of info you seek. My guess would be you’d get a dial tone in your ear. Get back to your hobby and your “cause” for the future investor!
March 12th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
@Green, uh-oh, must have touched a nerve. I have asked questions…. and told be patient, being patient is something I do well, but it has been a while and a lot longer for others that are involved.
You think you are entitled to answers? You want the truth?
Anyone with $$$ involved, from the most to the least, is entitled to answers and the truth.
March 13th, 2010 at 8:10 am
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100008424
gobbledegook?
March 15th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Wow. Things must be happening. Euclid Discoveries has gone ‘dark’
March 16th, 2010 at 6:59 am
Earl? Where are you? Is there a Star Trek conference this week and are you buying those action figures for your hobby? Maybe you’re contacting private companies looking for their ownership positions? How’s that going?
Things are going great out here! Moving along just fine. Nothing to say “purple”! Why would there be? Would that help the process? Yeah right, posting on an obscure blog is what they should do.
Earl, if you can find a “Scotty” doll, let me know! Idiots!
March 16th, 2010 at 7:21 am
Hey Know, that wasn’t very nice, but VERY FUNNY! I don’t even know much about the compression stuff but stumbled on this blog a couple of years ago and have really liked the back and forth with everyone. I check every day and it’s been quiet lately. Thanks for heating things up. Earl, you need to be nicer to Know! You don’t really follow capt kirk do you?
March 16th, 2010 at 7:33 am
That “obscure blog”, as you say, is the only place of all the internet with any kind of news about Euclid Discoveries. Haven’t you noticed it’s ranked just after the official website in Google search results?
I hope you are having fun “moving along just fine”, as for the past 10 years! Let us know if you ever tire of believing something will happen one day.
March 16th, 2010 at 7:50 am
Maloeran, it IS obscure. The company has been pretty much under the radar intentionally and that’s about to change. Only because this blog gets more activity by disgruntled LLC investors and outsiders like the Star Trek hobbyists does it get any ranking. It’s not legit except if you want to read so called compression “experts” who know nothing specific about euclid and get the information from a friend of a friend. I’m sure John Chambers heads straight to Mark’s cubicle when he needs guidance on compression. Or J